Fuse and Cable Directionality

[Atmasphere]

This is all fascinating stuff to we novices. I am definitely going to experiment with fuse direction once I receive them. I ordered four AMR fuses for switches and FMCs and one for my Zidoo media player. As @Kingrex said, it is a free tweak, so why not try. If it does nothing, I've confirmed it myself. If I think I hear a difference, that's fine too. Whatever makes us happy!

If you have access to the fuseholder and a Digital Voltmeter, you can correlate what you hear when you do the changes with the resulting Voltage drop from one connection of the fuseholder to the other.

Back in 1990 we were designing our MA-2 amplifier which we knew would draw a fair bit of current. So we separated the internal AC circuits (since there were two large power transformers in the amp) and ran each transformer with its own AC power cord. This minimized the effect of the power cords, internal wiring and the fuses. For the fuses, we chose midget cartridge fuses since they have vastly superior holders with a lot more surface area for the fuse to make contact. They way outperform 'boutique' fuses. If you're serious about fuses, something to look in to.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

What do you mean different sound. How did you determine this?

I had the turntable/power regulator (VPI SDS unit) plugged into the main system duplex versus the adjacent pair 6 feet away with a different breaker. The sound was thinner, less robust and dynamic. So, I added a new distribution power box which is neutral into the main system duplex/breaker. Back to normal sound.

I rely on my hearing and did not use electrical test equipment to make the determination of why.

I didn't use test equipment to determine how to adjust my Von Schweikert speakers which have 14 adjustable knob for sound parameter changes on the speakers either or to adjust my two pair of hallographs. I used my ears.

 

[Kingrex]

If the electrons are moving back and forth, and the crystal boundaries in a wire a shaped a little like a funnel, is there an influence pushing them towards center one direction and towards the surface the opposite direction. What affect would that have?

 

[Kingrex]

I had the turntable/power regulator (VPI SDS unit) plugged into the main system duplex versus the adjacent pair 6 feet away with a different breaker. The sound was thinner, less robust and dynamic. So, I added a new distribution power box which is neutral into the main system duplex/breaker. Back to normal sound.

I rely on my hearing and did not use electrical test equipment to make the determination of why.

I didn't use test equipment to determine how to adjust my Von Schweikert speakers which have 14 adjustable knob for sound parameter changes on the speakers either or to adjust my two pair of hallographs. I used my ears.

I'm sorry but I get confused by the vernacular you use. For instance, main system duplex vs adjacent pair 6 feet away? My mind goes to adjacent 6 feet away being general purpose duplex. Not audio.

Earlier you were saying things like 4 pair of duplex, and each circuit breakers pairs. Pair to me mean double duplex. Like 8 duplex on the wall with 4 circuit breakers. Double duplex are their own can of worms and can cause issues.

This to me is the only way in audio to make a double duplex. Of course your wrapping the connection with teflon tape or liquid tape, then vinyl tape. One wire remains unbroken and goes to one duplex. The other is tagged onto the main with a burndy C crimp and goes to the other duplex.

 

[keithc]

That’s what we call a logical fallacy. Claiming that a fuse or wire cannot be directional in an AC circuit. Besides all audio cables are AC, so is power cord obviously. Also, a fuse is attached to one of the 2 wires in the AC circuit, not “between the cable,” although I confess I’m not 100% what you meant by that phrase.

My ethernet cable is directional....

 

[treitz3]

<snip> For the fuses, we chose midget cartridge fuses since they have vastly superior holders with a lot more surface area for the fuse to make contact. They way outperform 'boutique' fuses. If you're serious about fuses, something to look in to.

Hello and good evening to you. When you say boutique fuses, which ones have you auditioned/tried? I am in no way being confrontational, I am genuinely curious.

Tom

 

[Republicoftexas69]

My ethernet cable is directional....

Can be if it has a drain.

 

[Atmasphere]

Hello and good evening to you. When you say boutique fuses, which ones have you auditioned/tried? I am in no way being confrontational, I am genuinely curious.

Tom

AMR, Isoclean and HiFi Tuning. There are a number of gold plated fuses for automotive, but being fast blow, they don't apply since most of our applications are slow blow. Not saying you can't hear the differences between these and regular fuses; but they don't stand a chance against the midget cartridge types. The Voltage drops across them tells the story: the cartridge fuseholders can have 1/10th the Voltage drop.

If the electrons are moving back and forth, and the crystal boundaries in a wire a shaped a little like a funnel, is there an influence pushing them towards center one direction and towards the surface the opposite direction. What affect would that have?

What if the crystal boundaries are not shaped like a funnel? What if the shape of the crystal has nothing to do with how electrons exchange between atoms?? I'm going with 'no effect' (applying Occam's Razor, which suggests the simpler explanation is correct). This sounds like wire manufacturer's hype to me. FWIW we've had a lot of our wire custom made for us for the last 40 years. Wire producers laugh when they hear some of the stuff audiophiles talk about with a straight face. You might be surprised to find out that many high end audio cable producers don't make their own wire.

That’s what we call a logical fallacy. Claiming that a fuse or wire cannot be directional in an AC circuit. Besides all audio cables are AC, so is power cord obviously. Also, a fuse is attached to one of the 2 wires in the AC circuit, not “between the cable,” although I confess I’m not 100% what you meant by that phrase.

You might call it a logical fallacy but the claim emphasized is simple truth.

Why are audiophiles the only ones who subscribe to the idea of wire directionality and not the industry at large? Do they know something that pro audio and consumer electronics doesn’t? Even most audiophile cables aren’t controlled for directionality. Nor are most audiophile fuses. Wassup with that?

'Wassup with that' is its the other way around- the rest of the electronics industry 'at large' knows something that some audiophiles don't (Occam's Razor; this being the simpler explanation).

 

[Analog Scott]

Said no one!

A lot of audiophiles say it.

 

[Robh3606]

Why are audiophiles the only ones who subscribe to the idea of wire directionality and not the industry at large? Do they know something that pro audio and consumer electronics doesn’t? Even most audiophile cables aren’t controlled for directionality. Nor are most audiophile fuses. Wassup with that?

Probably from some pseudoscience that has been transformed into an urban legend.

You have any idea how many times wire can be respooled through distribution. Each respool changes direction. Ever use MIL Spec's? If it was directional I have no doubt it would show up there. Same thing in manned space material specifications. The production testing done would make your head spin. Qualification is in another league.

Rob

 

[Geoffkait]

Probably from some pseudoscience that has been transformed into an urban legend.

You have any idea how many times wire can be respooled through distribution. Each respool changes direction. Ever use MIL Spec's? If it was directional I have no doubt it would show up there. Same thing in manned space material specifications. The production testing done would make your head spin. Qualification is in another league.

Rob

One need only check the direction of the first length of wire coming off the big spool when it arrives at your factory, e.g., AudioQuest. And, if they’re smart, which I am sure they are, they‘d ensure the wire manufacturer spooled the wire in the same orientation, that would require too much effort. Then you know the direction of the whole spool, no?

As I’ve oft pointed out *directionality* refers to the sound, it’s an audiophile term, NASA would have no interest in what their cables and wires sound like, not counting any astronauts who might be enjoying a little Hendrix during pre-launch activities, which I used to participate in at NASA so it probably would not be my head that’s spinning.

 

[Geoffkait]

AMR, Isoclean and HiFi Tuning. There are a number of gold plated fuses for automotive, but being fast blow, they don't apply since most of our applications are slow blow. Not saying you can't hear the differences between these and regular fuses; but they don't stand a chance against the midget cartridge types. The Voltage drops across them tells the story: the cartridge fuseholders can have 1/10th the Voltage drop.

What if the crystal boundaries are not shaped like a funnel? What if the shape of the crystal has nothing to do with how electrons exchange between atoms?? I'm going with 'no effect' (applying Occam's Razor, which suggests the simpler explanation is correct). This sounds like wire manufacturer's hype to me. FWIW we've had a lot of our wire custom made for us for the last 40 years. Wire producers laugh when they hear some of the stuff audiophiles talk about with a straight face. You might be surprised to find out that many high end audio cable producers don't make their own wire.

You might call it a logical fallacy but the claim emphasized is simple truth.

'Wassup with that' is its the other way around- the rest of the electronics industry 'at large' knows something that some audiophiles don't (Occam's Razor; this being the simpler explanation).

Occam‘s razor is not always true, sometimes it’s just an excuse not to investigate further. It’s certainly a logical fallacy to claim Occam‘s Razor always applies. It’s also the case as I’ve mentioned before no one is claiming the voltage drop difference is the reason for the difference in sound. It’s the same kind of logical fallacy as placebo effect always explains controversial tests.

Don’t tell anybody but the data sheets contained some serious math errors, actual measured differences in voltage drop were much smaller than what the tables show, however, they are consistent direction wise for all fuses tested, including stock fuses. Also, as I pointed out before the differences in sound did not comport with the voltage drop differences, the resistivity issue is kind of a red herring.The report contained in the data sheets makes that point clear.

“An explanation should sometimes need a certain level of complexity, but should not have any more than necessary.“ - Albert Einstein

 

[andromedaaudio]

which I used to participate in at NASA

Please tell me more about what you actually did at NASA ?

 

[Geoffkait]

Please tell me more about what you actually did at NASA ?

I won the office pool for day/time Skylab crashed into ocean (for the most part). Bldg 14 GSFC, satellite operations. Launch and pre launch activities. Oh, I already said that. Radar tracking data analysis. I can track a blue tail fly up a hound dog’s nose.

 

[Geoffkait]

I am explaining how to listen to the grain of a wire if you don't believe you can hear it. I am not trying to tell you to use THHN/THWN as speaker wire. That is not the point.

This only works with solid wire.
I have never heard stranded. I think the capacitive coupling of all the touching strands smears the sound to much. Stranded is a bit wolly and muddy. A little bass slow and heavy. When used at 120 volt branch wire. Again, this is not speaker wire. The speaker is just a tool. Use a crappy background music system. You don't need to do this with your big rig.

Power cords are generally stranded., maybe some exceptions. If I’m not mistaken AudioQuest controls their stranded wire cables and cords for directionality. Just sayin’. Just keep all strands going in the same orientation. No biggie. I suspect stranded wire is probably a bigger problem since the crystal Deformation would extend all the way to the center of each wire. No escape for the wandering electron.

 

[Geoffkait]

Pop quiz, one wonders what kind of fuses NASA uses. Hey, that rhymes! One imagines they don’t use off the shelf Littelfuse or Bussman.

 

[Robh3606]

One need only check the direction of the first length of wire coming off the big spool when it arrives at your factory, e.g., AudioQuest. And, if they’re smart, which I am sure they are, they‘d ensure the wire manufacturer spooled the wire in the same orientation, that would require too much effort. Then you know the direction of the whole spool, no?

As I’ve oft pointed out *directionality* refers to the sound, it’s an audiophile term, NASA would have no interest in what their cables and wires sound like, not counting any astronauts who might be enjoying a little Hendrix during pre-launch activities, which I used to participate in at NASA so it probably would not be my head that’s spinning.

Your theory makes no sense. You are stating that it sounds better in one direction which means by default you are changing/altering the signal depending on what the "direction is".

Audio bandwidth is a complete joke compared to analog television not getting into any modern digital, especially with digital frequencies transmissions in Ghz.

So you don't think NASA would be interested? If wire one way was better in anyway they would be all over it.

Rob

 

[Geoffkait]

Your theory makes no sense. You are stating that it sounds better in one direction which means by default you are changing/altering the signal depending on what the "direction is".

Eggs Ackley!

Audio bandwidth is a complete joke compared to analog television not getting into any modern digital, especially with digital frequencies transmissions in Ghz.

I‘m only referring to audio, audio wire and audio cables.

So you don't think NASA would be interested? If wire one way was better in anyway they would be all over it.
U
Rob

Maybe NASA would be interested, I have no idea. As I just opined they probably don’t have much concern about SQ. I used to be in the worldwide NASA a voice network from time to time, like on launches, copper and satellite comm infrastructure, the SQ was fine. “Wire Directionality” only applies to audio. I used to get all my Sylvania WA 12AX/7 tubes from a guy I knew who worked in maintenance.

 

[Robh3606]

“Wire Directionality” only applies to audio.

How convenient! The urban legend continues!

Rob

 

[Alrainbow]

fuses used in aircraft or most military I thought were not fuses at all but circuit breakers
but not a typical breaker like in panels but Contactors controlled by circuit boards