Golden Ear - Triton (closer to the) Reference

[Markuzz]

Interesting, I did not find the small original screws secure enough, but again: Different people, different perspectives.

Yes of course, there is a bit of burn-in time. Actually I did not hear more treble energy after the upgrade, so I have kept the same toe-in as I used before. Now with the new crossovers fully burned in I find the treble much more listenable. I still have some ‘’toe out’’ though, compared to the recommendation in the manual, otherwise I find them too bright.

The filters are not heavy as the inductors are relatively small. So I feel confident it will hold nicely with the standard screws (also in transport). Needless to say that longer screws would be better, and your implementation with the inserts is the best.

I put in one radiator, moved the filter against it, and then shifted it 1-2mm back and drilled the opposite side of the filter boards. Put the screws in, took the radiator out and moved it to the other side and repeated the process. It makes for a very easy installation, with the filter just clearing the radiators on all sides.

At first listening, it looked like the whole passive section gained about 3dB efficiency above 1kHz. Obviously, this is not the case and clearly a sign of break-in. Probably mostly for the cabling as the Ludic Silenos cables are notorious in this aspect in the first 10 hours.

I understand most have ordered the filters with cables attached. If not, take a look at the Ludic cables as they are interesting:

Silenos, pure copper with Carbon per meter - Ludic Audio manufacturer in Europe for Audio accessoires

So who’s the nut behind this wheel? Who designed it? In collaboration with Physis, Ludic designed an exceptional cable the Silenos. A pure copper cable as the main conductor with a Carbon inner part that has a structural effect on music which is not available with any other cable technology...

www.ludic-audio.com

@MortenB : out of curiosity, at what setting is your 'bass knob'? I moved from 10 o'clock (during break-in new loudspeakers) to 12 o'clock. With the new filters I feel that 13:00hrs might be the preferred setting. Isn't this an interesting hobby?

 

[MortenB]

I did the same process when installing my crossovers, to make sure to have clearance to the passive radiators on each side. That’s how to do it to make sure we have clerance.

I still recommend the threaded inserts, much more secure installation, where we can be confident the speakers will ‘’survive’’ shipping without the filters breaking loose. But yes, it takes 15-20 minutes more for each speaker, and if we can/will not invest that time, it’s good to know you feel the original small screws are ok.

Early in my career I worked in R&D at a company developing and manufacturing physically large products with both electronic and mechanical components inside. When we had our prototypes done, we send them off to a test facility here in Denmark, where one test was to simulate shipping… Unpacking after testning was often horrible, as all kinds of parts, we thought was designed / installed well had fallen off, was hanging loose by wires and what not. Then we started over on the mechanical side of the design After learning that, I always think about shipping when I work on any kind of modification.

For me I heard no shift in tonality with the new filters / furutech cables, so I have the same setting on the bass level, as I had before the new filters, and that is at ‘’1’’. The reason for Tony recommending the Furutech is both, that there is serious engineering behind (no woo-doo or snakeoil), and that he find them very ‘’predictable’’ and neutral. They always seem to work for his customers - so I choose to rely on his experience, even though they are a bit pricy. I’m a bit surprised you hear this shift in tonality, but hopefully just the cables needing break-in as you say. I don’t know the cables you’re using, so no idea, who they work compared to Furutech. The construction with copper and carbon reminds me of some of the cables VDH made back in the day.

When I initially set-up the speakers brand new, I toed them in as recommended in the manual, and set the bass level at ‘’12’’ also as recommended. I could not believe what I was hearing. (To me) very thin and bright sound, so I toed the speakers out to reduce treble, and turned the bass up to ‘’1’’ to get a more natural bottom end, and that has been my setting ever since.

 

[Markuzz]

I did the same process when installing my crossovers, to make sure to have clearance to the passive radiators on each side. That’s how to do it to make sure we have clerance.

I still recommend the threaded inserts, much more secure installation, where we can be confident the speakers will ‘’survive’’ shipping without the filters breaking loose. But yes, it takes 15-20 minutes more for each speaker, and if we can/will not invest that time, it’s good to know you feel the original small screws are ok.

Early in my career I worked in R&D at a company developing and manufacturing physically large products with both electronic and mechanical components inside. When we had our prototypes done, we send them off to a test facility here in Denmark, where one test was to simulate shipping… Unpacking after testning was often horrible, as all kinds of parts, we thought was designed / installed well had fallen off, was hanging loose by wires and what not. Then we started over on the mechanical side of the design After learning that, I always think about shipping when I work on any kind of modification.

For me I heard no shift in tonality with the new filters / furutech cables, so I have the same setting on the bass level, as I had before the new filters, and that is at ‘’1’’. The reason for Tony recommending the Furutech is both, that there is serious engineering behind (no woo-doo or snakeoil), and that he find them very ‘’predictable’’ and neutral. They always seem to work for his customers - so I choose to rely on his experience, even though they are a bit pricy. I’m a bit surprised you hear this shift in tonality tou mention, but hopefully just the cables needing break-in as you say. I don’t know the cables you’re using, so no idea, who they work compared to Furutech. The construction with copper and carbon reminds me of some of the cables VDH made back in the day.

When I initially set-up the speakers brand new, I toed them in as recommended in the manual, and set the bass level at ‘’12’’ also as recommended. I could not believe what I was hearing. (To me) very thin and bright sound, so I toed the speakers out to reduce treble, and turned the bass up to ‘’1’’ to get a more natural bottom end, and that has been my setting ever since.

The main difference with your filters and Tonys' is the base board. Obviously going with inserts is the elegant way. But if something would break, then it will be the board itself, as it is thin and the centre hole (which would make up for most of the strength) is inaccessible from the top.

Nevertheless, if one would decide to ship the speakers..... it's always possible to fill the cabinet so that nothing can move. Easy to do with the removal of just one radiator

Yes, these Ludic cables do hint back to the good-old VDH days! Impressive you made that connection

Tonal balance is getting better by the hour. Stay tuned.

 

[MortenB]

I still have some meters of that VDH cable in a box somewhere, it’s red, so I think it must be the Magnum Hybrid. I have used several VDH cables, and cartridges during the years, but nothing VDH in my system at this time.

Good to hear the tonal balance is improvning..!

 

[Markuzz]

I still have some meters of that VDH cable in a box somewhere, it’s red, so I think it must be the Magnum Hybrid. I have used several VDH cables, and cartridges during the years, but nothing VDH in my system at this time.

Good to hear the tonal balance is improvning..!

Experimenting with the toe in also helps .

I have the speakers now firing over my shoulders, so slightly off axis. Much, much better indeed.

Bass is also at 1. I like it.

No VDH here anymore as well. They make nice analog products, but I moved on.

 

[MortenB]

If we look at the NRC measurements inserted here, we can see the T Ref has very good and even power response, so basically we can toe them in - out as a ‘’treble adjustment’’.

The picture I attach here shows what I see of the sides of the speakers from the listening position. Somewhat more toe-out than what GoldenEar recommends, but I find the treble balance natural this way.

 

[Markuzz]

If we look at the NRC measurements inserted here, we can see the T Ref has very good and even power response, so basically we can toe them in - out as a ‘’treble adjustment’’.

The picture I attach here shows what I see of the sides of the speakers from the listening position. Somewhat more toe-out than what GoldenEar recommends, but I find the treble balance natural this way.

Very similar toe in to the set up here:

 

[MortenB]

Very similar indeed

 

[Raesco]

Markuzz, slightly off topic, did you use spade connectors for the subwoofer drivers as per oem or did you solder the 2+ and 2- wires to each terminal connector? Parallel wiring? I hope I'm being clear.

Markuzz, I wasn't clear so I posted a picture, are you or have you connected the wiring to the subwoofers either via solder or using spade connectors as from the factory?

 

[MortenB]

He mentioned earlier, that he has not yet upgraded the subwoofer wiring.

 

[Raesco]

I saw that, but would he use spade connectors as per the factory or would he solder both wires to each speaker connector?

 

[Markuzz]

I saw that, but would he use spade connectors as per the factory or would he solder both wires to each speaker connector?

I made no change to the subwoofer cabling (yet) . So all is stock at the moment.

 

[MortenB]

Obviously I can not answer what Markuzz intends to do, but I see no point what so over not to solder them, as with all the other drivers.

I don’t think I have shown this earlier, but here is my wiring for the 3 subwoofer drivers. It’s stripped Furutech, same as for the other drivers.

 

[MortenB]

I made no change to the subwoofer cabling (yet) . So all is stock at the moment.

I think he is asking, if you intend to use spade connectors, or intend solder the cables to the subdrivers - whenever you upgrade.

 

[Markuzz]

I think he is asking, if you intend to use spade connectors, or intend solder the cables to the subdrivers - whenever you upgrade.

If I change the subwoofer cabling, then obviously the connections will be soldered.

The human ear is limited to hear audible changes below 100Hz. So probably you'll hear no change which makes changing the subwoofer cabling for peace of mind only.

 

[MortenB]

Does not seem obvious to all Mine are soldered as well, wiring as shown in previous post.

The wiring + connectors for the bass is the same terrible quality, as for the MTM section, and I doubt any of us would use that low quality wire and connectors as speaker cables/connectors between our amp and the speakers. At least I would not = I don’t want to use it between amp and speaker drivers inside the speaker either.

 

[Raesco]

Morten, thank you for the picture that was helpful. However, I find it interesting probably for cost or accessibility issues that the OEM used spade connectors for the subwoofer drivers.

 

[MortenB]

There are spade connectors on all the drivers in these speakers: Subwoofers, midwoofers and tweeters. All very low quality.

 

[Markuzz]

Does not seem obvious to all Mine are soldered as well, wiring as shown in previous post.

The wiring + connectors for the bass is the same terrible quality, as for the MTM section, and I doubt any of us would use that low quality wire and connectors as speaker cables/connectors between our amp and the speakers. At least I would not = I don’t want to use it between amp and speaker drivers inside the speaker either.

I agree @MortenB, the cabling for the subs is crap. However, changing the cables for the subs will have a far lesser effect than changing the cabling for the passive MTM section.

Will I change the subs cables? Probably yes

 

[Raesco]

Yes, I see that. How likely is it that if we used quality after market spade connectors would there be a sound downgrade from point to point soldering? Or are we talking about splitting hairs here? Just curious, it would seem that upgrading the crossover and the internal wiring would make the most impact.