Has Magico lost its Touch?

TLi

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Thanks for this description, very interesting! How would you describe the bass of the M6 in comparison wih the bass of the XVX? In reviews the latter has been particularly lauded for its impact and realism, as something that makes it stand apart from almost any other speakers.

Robert Harley for example, in his TAS review, talks about an unparalleled rendition of drums. His usual reference speakers are the Magico Q7 Mk II, I believe.
Bass is never a problem with Wilson Audio. In some models, such as Alexx, I find the bass is too strong but lacks texture. XVX bass is more refined and controlled. Daryl Wilson said the improvement in bass is due to the use of a new composite material which has higher damping property. He demonstrated hitting samples of new and old material, the new material is less resonate.

The difference between M6 and XVX in the bass section is mainly due to sealed box and ported design. XVX has more of a kick but M6 has more details. The transition from bass to mid range is more seamless in M6 as well because of uniform design from bass to mid range.

At the end of the day, it is personal preference that dictates. Wilson Audio sound is beefy and fast. Magico is detailed and refined. You can choose accordingly.
 

Addicted to hifi

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Bass is never a problem with Wilson Audio. In some models, such as Alexx, I find the bass is too strong but lacks texture. XVX bass is more refined and controlled. Daryl Wilson said the improvement in bass is due to the use of a new composite material which has higher damping property. He demonstrated hitting samples of new and old material, the new material is less resonate.

The difference between M6 and XVX in the bass section is mainly due to sealed box and ported design. XVX has more of a kick but M6 has more details. The transition from bass to mid range is more seamless in M6 as well because of uniform design from bass to mid range.

At the end of the day, it is personal preference that dictates. Wilson Audio sound is beefy and fast. Magico is detailed and refined. You can choose accordingly.
I agree with you.well said.
 
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LL21

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In November 2019, Daryl Wilson presented XVX in Tokyo HiFi Show. The equipment used at the time were Constellation Altair II and Hercules II with Air Force Zero. The sound was impressive. It was not the typical Wilson Audio sound that I familiar with. I used Alexia for some time before switching to M Project.

The overall presentation was a detailed and musical picture. A few months later, I had an audition session in my local Wilson Audio dealer just with me alone to listen to XVX. The new midrange driver gave a warmer sound. Upper end was extended but not edgy. Bass was well controlled. At the time, XVX was driven by CH Precision 1.1 amps.

There are many similarities between M6 and XVX. M6 has a little higher resolution while sound stage is better with XVX. I think the development of high end speakers is all pointing at a common goal. Carbon monocoque chassis of M6 has an advantage over the array arrangement of XVX. The scaffolding design reduces the rigidity of mount for mid range and tweeter drivers. Resolution is reduced.

After the event in Tokyo, I upgraded my pre amp, power amp to Constellation, turntable to Air Force Zero. M6 is still here.
Thank you! Very, very insightful. I have also wondered about the scaffolding structure which Wilson have used (to great advantage) for adjusting and finetuning to the room...where structural rigidity was the primary question in my mind. That said, I wonder what would happen if Wilson built the scaffolding structure as completely independent of the main modules where they inserted each into the frame...and the vibration then went down into the skeletal structure rather than having spikes which ultimately make contact with each speaker cones module. No doubt they have thought through all of this (and a TON more). Still, would be interesting to see the results of their analysis on the vibration implications on rigidity of having all the modules be adjustable (ie, moveable), making contact with each other.

That said, the bigger Wilsons remain my favorite, and I look forward to hearing the XVX. Enjoy your magnificent M6s and look forward to hearing those as well at some point.
 

LL21

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Bass is never a problem with Wilson Audio. In some models, such as Alexx, I find the bass is too strong but lacks texture. XVX bass is more refined and controlled. Daryl Wilson said the improvement in bass is due to the use of a new composite material which has higher damping property. He demonstrated hitting samples of new and old material, the new material is less resonate.

The difference between M6 and XVX in the bass section is mainly due to sealed box and ported design. XVX has more of a kick but M6 has more details. The transition from bass to mid range is more seamless in M6 as well because of uniform design from bass to mid range.

At the end of the day, it is personal preference that dictates. Wilson Audio sound is beefy and fast. Magico is detailed and refined. You can choose accordingly.
Interesting...I have often enjoyed the 'bass wallop' of the Wilson bass...and with supremely powerful Class A amps that can really control them, then the detail as well. However, I DO find a slightly discontinuity there relative to things above (I am guessing) 200hz.

Will be interesting to hear XVX in that regard. I have often felt that the discontinuity was more cabinet than anything else. When you hear the Rockport Arrakis at full tilt and touch the cabinet, you would not know if the speakers were playing or not because there is ZERO micro-vibration. None. With the bigger older Wilsons, I could feel a little...much less with XLF...much. But does not seem quite as dead still as Arrakis.
 

microstrip

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(...) At the end of the day, it is personal preference that dictates. Wilson Audio sound is beefy and fast. Magico is detailed and refined. You can choose accordingly.
TLi,

Most of the time words are not enough to transmit listening feelings and trying to summarize in general speaker epithets is a risky affair. Considering the Wilson Audio WAMM and XLF, Magico Q7 mk2 and MPro I can't agree with such systematization. Both Wilson's are extremely refined and detailed and Magico's are fast. They have different character, due to their designer objectives and priorities, but I found that room and system dominate the fundamental aspects you refer.

Although they have strong personality (they will sound night and day in a A/B test), these top speakers are chamaeleons - sonically they blend in the system and room. IMHO and experience in an ideal world we should first bring all the contender speakers in you room and listen to them with a "neutral" amplifier and source, such as the Quad 606 or Parasound JC1 and the DCS Vivaldi :oops: , not just listening in shops with top ancillaries with strong signatures. And then discover which of them is able to " trigger our relaxing pleasure and stimulation buttons" - I am using the words of Ricardo Franassovici of the Absolute Sounds in an interesting interview in Mono&Stereo - in our own room.

Every time I changed my listening room I had to change my speakers - I am moving in a few months, but I am not sure of what will happen this time!
 

microstrip

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Interesting...I have often enjoyed the 'bass wallop' of the Wilson bass...and with supremely powerful Class A amps that can really control them, then the detail as well. However, I DO find a slightly discontinuity there relative to things above (I am guessing) 200hz. (...)

Discontinuity around 200 Hz in the XLF? Can you refer a recording where you find it and describe what you listen? I have found that adding inadequate subs or the port setting can just suggest this effect.
 

LL21

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Discontinuity around 200 Hz in the XLF? Can you refer a recording where you find it and describe what you listen? I have found that adding inadequate subs or the port setting can just suggest this effect.
Hi Micro,

Pretty much as we get down between 200hz and 100hz the sound does not have as much articulation...who knows, it could be our setup which is yet to be perfectly finetuned by Pedro, or it could be the room...but it is clear across most any recording. The key is when you jump down lower, it clears up again...but there is this gentle speed bump between the two. I am not sure why.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Every time I changed my listening room I had to change my speakers - I am moving in a few months, but I am not sure of what will happen this time!

Why was this, Francisco?
 
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microstrip

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Hi Micro,

Pretty much as we get down between 200hz and 100hz the sound does not have as much articulation...who knows, it could be our setup which is yet to be perfectly finetuned by Pedro, or it could be the room...but it is clear across most any recording. The key is when you jump down lower, it clears up again...but there is this gentle speed bump between the two. I am not sure why.

A quick measurement with REW will probably help to diagnose the issue - not the frequency response, but the time related measurements, such as RT60 versus frequency, decay and waterfall. The 100-200 Hz is a fundamental band in sonatas for piano and cello, I can assure you the XLF can sound articulate and seamless in this range!
 

microstrip

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Why was this, Francisco?

Because the listening space dimensions and building techniques were very different. I remember I had a great room for the ESL63 and never managed to make it sound anything similar in the next house.
 

LL21

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A quick measurement with REW will probably help to diagnose the issue - not the frequency response, but the time related measurements, such as RT60 versus frequency, decay and waterfall. The 100-200 Hz is a fundamental band in sonatas for piano and cello, I can assure you the XLF can sound articulate and seamless in this range!
Thank you!
 

Lagonda

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Because the listening space dimensions and building techniques were very different. I remember I had a great room for the ESL63 and never managed to make it sound anything similar in the next house.
Are you getting a larger listening room in your new house Francisco ? :)
 

microstrip

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Are you getting a larger listening room in your new house Francisco ? :)
Yes, around 60 square meter with a vaulted ceiling.
 
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Lagonda

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sbo6

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IME there's an addiction to what we often call "warmth". Many justify it as being full bodied, robust, singers being chesty and admittedly there's a certain pleasing quality to it. Some even believe it's more realistic, another good one we often hear is, more analog. I find it to be unrealistic and many dread what's construed as its nemesis, "neutral" as if it's a bad thing. Audiophiles, we are a funny bunch.

Some brands pride themselves on being neutral, one is Magico. To my ears other than the S series, they achieve this objective (along with ultra - low distortion). I'd include Vivid Audio and YG in that category. Others like Wilson (especially the older models), Spendor, Evolution Acoustics err on the side of warmth. If that's your cup of tea go for it.

Back to the question - It depends what you strive for. Do you strive for neutrality and ultimate accuracy or do you strive for a bit of warmth while retaining most of if not all of the accuracy. If you land on the side of warmth, just be careful with associated gear or the 90lb soprano may sound like a 190lb contralto, we've all heard it before...
 
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Bartolo

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IME there's an addiction to what we often call "warmth". Many justify it as being full bodied, robust, singers being chesty and admittedly there's a certain pleasing quality to it. Some even believe it's more realistic, another good one we often hear is, more analog. I find it to be unrealistic and many dread what's construed as its nemesis, "neutral" as if it's a bad thing. Audiophiles, we are a funny bunch.

Some brands pride themselves on being neutral, one is Magico. To my ears other than the S series, they achieve this objective (along with ultra - low distortion). I'd include Vivid Audio and YG in that category. Others like Wilson (especially the older models), Spendor, Evolution Acoustics err on the side of warmth. If that's your cup of tea go for it.

Back to the question - It depends what you strive for. Do you strive for neutrality and ultimate accuracy or do you strive for a bit of warmth while retaining most of if not all of the accuracy. If you land on the side of warmth, just be careful with associated gear or the 90lb soprano may sound like a 190lb contralto, we've all heard it before...
We very much enjoy the Magico A3's in our home and as we listen to 'bigger' speakers for our new bigger home, it's really the mid/treble we listen to a lot in speakers. Some seem voiced with quite a bit of emphasis there, and that can render SOME female vocals and drums almost "harsh." Resulting in my turning down the volume when testing. Whereas Magicos never seem to give that.
 
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andromedaaudio

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Interesting thread .

First of all kudos to both magico / wilson for running a succesfull LS business .
In this crazy customer business where a 10. OOO euro power cord together with a mystical newly introduced 4 K interlink used with a competing brand can just flatten your newly introduced high tech model.:)

I do have the impression sometimes they both use reviewers / customers a bit to much as a sort of testing ground with all those fast following incarnations , but hey running a bussines aint easy .

I like Boulder Lamm CAT for example in that regard

Regarding unit tech i think wilson much more depends on OEM unit manufacturers with some small changes done by wilson
Magico for example designs them from the ground up .
Wilson / magico / YG/ Dynaudio measure their products with good enginering behind it ( unlike some horn manufacturers i suspect :) )

Wilson has the nod from me regarding cabinet design , i m not very fond of the sound of alu plates braced with stainless steel .

I think magico sounds cleaner overall , but living with them would be harder then with a wilson for me , exept for the V3 a Wood / alu construction with one could make a Sota system imo with not a to large room .

Monocoque versus wilsons independent time alignment technnology ?
I m not convinced yet i ll be hearing the latest wilsons next year in munich .
Wilsons way is very costly to make though .
Both have excellent fit n finish .

Ps magico s latest " carbon fiber " monocoque is as far as i could read a alu honey comb sandwhich panel with a visual attractive carbon fiber layering , LS made out of purely carbon fiber aint gonna work i think .
They must sound different then the Q 7 Q3 Q5 s etc which i am not a fan of as stated above .

Regarding magico s being harder to drive is due to their unit design/ X over design .
So you might need to put some more power / control behind them to make them sing
Wilson is also on this way regarding their bigger models which indicate different units / X over design then the past

I think magicos design philosophy is more tech driven and wilsons is more listening based.

( Some horn systems are solely listening based :(:) )
 
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andromedaaudio

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Hopefully Munich opens next year (is it open this year?) - I will hopefully get a chance to ask him and also his thoughts on a plastic WE replica.
Munchen is next year , i m planning to do full Horn listening coverage as well incl pics . :cool:
However I ll post this in my own thread though for my own safety .
Fwiw i might get arrested on the first day for trying to measure the in room FR of a 300 K horn system . :oops:

Ron does your friend : the CEO of skunk works know of an area S4 at area 51 ?:)
 
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Audire

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We really enjoy Magicos. I presently own the A3s and I’m trading them for M3s.
 

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