How to Revive High-End Audio

[Alrainbow]

Wow funny and some good points, except for the part about most equipment is better then hi end. That is where your statement hits the wall , hard too. I am you , I am an audiophile too. I am willing to bet I have more portible Amps , dacs,daps then you. As you are a Muscian I am not, this only means you should know how it sounds better than I. It does not mean you love music more. It's more like you can create it , but if it's your job Or a gig then you may not.
How can you say CIEM,S in anyway produce what live un amplified music sounds Like k
what is playing in your ears. That statement is very contradicting to me. I have CIEM,S , headphones and speakers. As I like them all only speakers is anything close to real music. However as your statement says today's equipment is better than is was yes this is true.
I think most people today have much better choices then I had just ten years ago and the headphone market is the next hi end market . And it's been here for aBout ten years or more. And the speaker audiophile does not even acknowledge it's there. This is where hi end is going, and it does sound pretty good. But I have invested time and money to create a system to accurately produce music as opposed to how your IEM,S make it sound. Tell me what equipment you have . I am willing to bet I heard of it or maybe own it.
Al

 

[Al M.]

How can you say CIEM,S in anyway produce what live un amplified music sounds Like k
what is playing in your ears. That statement is very contradicting to me. I have CIEM,S , headphones and speakers. As I like them all only speakers is anything close to real music.

Yes, I started out with a headphone system (Stax) and I thought it was the best thing in the world. There was no bigger "fan" for that than me -- I even got a story about my system into a Dutch high-end magazine at the time, 24 years ago.

Yet nothing substitutes for a real soundstage in front of you when it comes to creating the illusion of real music making. Speakers are the only way to go with respect to that, not sounds "in your ears". I could never go back -- I do have headphones still (Grado) but I rarely use them, the difference is just too painful.

To claim that IEMs can susbstitute for a speaker-based high-end system is preposterous.

 

[Alrainbow]

Exactly. I have the stax 009 and 6 k amp
Senn HE60 and a few more. I use them to get a bead on a new system
For tones and overall balance. And they can reveal details that I need before
But more close up. But only speakers gives the real music gives you the whole package
And I use CIEMS daily when taking trains in NYC or working out at the gym

Please do not feel I am picking on you
I am not it's just I totally disagree at some points.
And the really funny thing I am a big believer in headphones
It's just like watching a movie in stereo instead of surround
It's all there but the embodiment is just not all there.
Al

 

[wakibaki]

Hi, Alrainbow

Thanks for the good-tempered reply.

Most of my amplifier equipment now is own-design. Those speakers that I own (that are not) are '60s vintage, Wharfedale Dalesmans , Celestion Dittons, although I also have FR and active systems.

I have numerous DACs and DAPs, ranging thru standalone SP/DIF, USB, soundcard, tablet, mobile phone, DTVs. I have IEMs from Shure, Klipsch, regular 'phones from Koss, Behringer ATM, although I owned other 'phones in the past. I don't mention the exact types in most instances, since I don't wish to descend into an equipment competition, but I have had the opportunity to audition many different types besides those that I own. I no longer own a turntable, although I have made no effort to dispose of numerous LPs.

Doubtless I expressed myself in somewhat stark terms in my first post, but such is the nature of creative writing that we seek to capture the reader's attention and make an indelible impression, I ask only that this is borne in mind.

I feel that music is there to be enjoyed despite the equipment. I am frequently entranced on hearing a favourite track or piece played over a supermarket tannoy. Once heard over quality IEMs, memory provides any missing detail. In fact I am replaying the brass from 'Magical Mystery Tour' right now without the benefit of any equipment whatsoever. I am assured by more than one friend (non-musician) that this is a facility open to them too.

For such reasons I feel that the current mythology (such as the supposed superiority of HD formats over Redbook CD) surrounding 'high-end' reproduction is actually destructive to the true appreciation of music, and I'm drawn to the conclusion that those who propagate those myths are actually less sensitive to the emotional and spiritual content of music than the general public, who, if they think about 'high-end' audio at all, regard it as a pretentious fad of the over-endowed.

w

 

[Alrainbow]

You know what you say is true to a point. When we just focus on the system the music is lost its all About tweeking reading to see what need to improve what we have . For me its both as i listen in the car and dare I say bose radio in my kitchen . Funny thing is a low definition system it is totally about the music. But when we step up the resolution its not .

Very good point but surley not what most people here want to see in writng. I guess we live or at least i do in more than one plain in audio lol.

 

[Al M.]

For such reasons I feel that the current mythology (such as the supposed superiority of HD formats over Redbook CD) surrounding 'high-end' reproduction is actually destructive to the true appreciation of music,

Yes, hi-res will never be a mainstream vehicle for music and audiophiles going for hi-res unnecessarily are limiting their musical tastes for the sake of "sound". All music is on CD (and MP3), and in comparison there is hardly any on hi-res. Audiophiles of course stick their head in the sand and delude themselves into thinking that this might change in the future and hi-res will become significant one day -- they never rationally stepped back and learned the lessons from the SACD flop, did they.

I have never been interested in HD formats including SACD, because I am a music lover ahead of being an audiophile, and all the music is on CD, period. I had always anticipated that SACD would be a flop, even when at the time the reviewers of Stereophile and Absolute Sound foolishly touted it as the medium of the future. I was right.

The hi-res craze just seems to confirm that many audiophiles care more about the sound than about the music if they prefer their measly hi-res collection over the wide palette of music on CD (and now they even decline to consider for purchase DACs that don't do DSD -- the height of audiophilic madness gone wild). As you say,

I'm drawn to the conclusion that those who propagate those myths are actually less sensitive to the emotional and spiritual content of music than the general public,

There is nothing wrong with the theory of 16/44 CD. It's just more dificult to implement technically. But as even reviewers that have been die-hard proponents of HD formats are beginning to concede, on the very best machines the differences between CD and higher-resolution formats are becoming minimal. Manufacturers should strive even more to get CD right, where all the music is, instead of foolishly concentrating on such silly fads as DSD, where there will never be any reasonable amount of music available on.

 

[Alrainbow]

I have the chesty hi def. and here is a link to some others. http://www.head-fi.org/t/511850/awesome-binaural-albums

As I have all three forms of sound reproduction and I have listened to the one I have on all the rigs. As it is completely different in per sense and does sound really good. It does give you a stronger presence sound that you are there.

Al

 

[Euphonious]

From entry level high-end to the top of high-end, people are buying gear. I'm not ready to attend a funeral for something that is alive and well.

People are making gear. Are others buying it?

 

[esldude]

Hi, Alrainbow

Thanks for the good-tempered reply.

Most of my amplifier equipment now is own-design. Those speakers that I own (that are not) are '60s vintage, Wharfedale Dalesmans , Celestion Dittons, although I also have FR and active systems.

I have numerous DACs and DAPs, ranging thru standalone SP/DIF, USB, soundcard, tablet, mobile phone, DTVs. I have IEMs from Shure, Klipsch, regular 'phones from Koss, Behringer ATM, although I owned other 'phones in the past. I don't mention the exact types in most instances, since I don't wish to descend into an equipment competition, but I have had the opportunity to audition many different types besides those that I own. I no longer own a turntable, although I have made no effort to dispose of numerous LPs.

Doubtless I expressed myself in somewhat stark terms in my first post, but such is the nature of creative writing that we seek to capture the reader's attention and make an indelible impression, I ask only that this is borne in mind.

I feel that music is there to be enjoyed despite the equipment. I am frequently entranced on hearing a favourite track or piece played over a supermarket tannoy. Once heard over quality IEMs, memory provides any missing detail. In fact I am replaying the brass from 'Magical Mystery Tour' right now without the benefit of any equipment whatsoever. I am assured by more than one friend (non-musician) that this is a facility open to them too.

For such reasons I feel that the current mythology (such as the supposed superiority of HD formats over Redbook CD) surrounding 'high-end' reproduction is actually destructive to the true appreciation of music, and I'm drawn to the conclusion that those who propagate those myths are actually less sensitive to the emotional and spiritual content of music than the general public, who, if they think about 'high-end' audio at all, regard it as a pretentious fad of the over-endowed.

w

This and your previous post in this thread were excellent.