How to Revive High-End Audio

[dallasjustice]

Tbone,
The basic foundation of this hobby is the music. What do you think motivates people like me to spend enormous amounts of money on room and gear? What do you think any dealer does when they want to sell gear? If only a small fraction of those that regularly hear live music buy gear, then I am seeing an improvement there. Music will never die. It is hard-wired in all of our brains. As long as people seek musical enjoyment, there will be a high-end audio market.

Btw, some of the greatest live musical recordings have been recorded here in Dallas at the Meyerson. Ask Keith Johnson what he thinks about the Meyerson. The more interest in the Symphony, the greater the likelihood you will be blessed to hear new recordings. For example, the DSO's JFK memorial symphony, which included a new piece commissioned for the 50th anniversary of the JFK assassination, was apparently being recorded a couple of weeks ago when I was there. The booth was setup and recording mics all over the stage.

Live shows and acts have always done well here and perhaps that is a good sign, but I'm not certain how that pertains to the audiophile demographic, since the vast majority of people I know who frequent live events are not audiophiles.

tb1

 

[JackD201]

Here's one guy doing his part. Amazing!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121505.0

 

[BlueFox]

I didn't realize high-end audio needed reviving. I want my money back!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Nice, i read it , i like the look on her face showing the x overs , you could tell she was quite proud of her work
I think high end has a bright future , there is always a group wanting to spend more on high quality audio than average

Here's one guy doing his part. Amazing!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121505.0

 

[GaryProtein]

The people I knew in my teens and twenties had stereo systems cause thats what was what was there to have. No computers, HDTV, no vcr's, cell phones, or good coffee! We were creatures of our culture at the time, and our folks had speaker stereo systems and so did we.

Nowadays, speaker type sound devices as we know them are pretty much irrelevant to the culture.

I beg to differ. There was ALWAYS good coffee if you were looking in the right place.

 

[JonFo]

Here's one guy doing his part. Amazing!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121505.0

I've been following that thread for the past week or so, it is truly inspirational. A Father/Daughter speaker build just full of awesomeness.

If we all spent more time mentoring others vs. having yet another heated discussion here, the world and our hobby would both benefit.

 

[taters]

You are joking aren't you? High end audio is limited to a very, very small portion of the population. I am sure that people who are involved in dog shows, equestrian, bowling all think the world revolves around them too.

I think dog shows are more popular than Audio shows. When was the last time you saw an audio show on T. V. All the major pet suppliers advertise on those shows. The Industry surrounding dogs makes the audio Industry look like a 5 year old with a lemonade stand.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I think dog shows are more popular than Audio shows. When was the last time you saw an audio show on T. V. All the major pet suppliers advertise on those shows. The Industry surrounding dogs makes the audio Industry look like a 5 year old with a lemonade stand.

The pet food business is a multi-billion dollar industry and may even surpass audio as a whole when you include Sony, etc.

 

[taters]

Same with RMAF this year. The halls and rooms were as empty as i have ever seen them.

I've been to all 3 Newport beach shows. The first one was the busiest. The last 2 you could of rolled a bowling ball down the aisles and not hit anyway. I have said this for years. Once guys my age get to old for this nonsense (I'm 50) That will be the end of the audio game as we know it. Young people aren't Interested in sitting in front of a system and listening to music. It's alien to them and they did not grow up doing that. When I was a kid I used to collect stamps and race slot cars. Those 2 hobbies are practically dead nowadays. We get older and things change.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I've been to all 3 Newport beach shows. The first one was the busiest. The last 2 you could of rolled a bowling ball down the aisles and not hit anyway. I have said this for years. Once guys my age get to old for this nonsense (I'm 50) That will be the end of the audio game as we know it. Young people aren't Interested in sitting in front of a system and listening to music. It's alien to them and they did not grow up doing that. When I was a kid I used to collect stamps and race slot cars. Those 2 hobbies are practically dead nowadays. We get older and things change.

Have you seen the stamps lately? No wonder collecting is dead.

 

[taters]

Have you seen the stamps lately? No wonder collecting is dead.

I have not seen them.

 

[Hyperion]

...almost forgot goldmund just went under - these are blue chip cos!

huh???

 

[KeithR]

Gear is just too high priced as manufacturers are having to raise prices in ultimately a shrinking demand situation (ie. men in their 50s).

Sure, there is good cheap stuff-- but most audiophiles don't live on that for long. and now, 10k speakers often are made in China- no thanks. another thing, when Sony, HK (Citation), Proceed, etc were around gear seemed to be cheaper. Now you have much smaller companies taking up a larger segment of the space.

Here's one recent example- the new stereo KT88 amp from Zesto is a mind blowing 12.5k. It weighs 50 lbs and is open chassis with a simple P/P ultralinear circuit. I owned a Cary V12 in 2001 that retailed for 4k.

 

[Al M.]

Gear is just too high priced as manufacturers are having to raise prices in ultimately a shrinking demand situation (ie. men in their 50s).

Sure, there is good cheap stuff-- but most audiophiles don't live on that for long. and now, 10k speakers often are made in China- no thanks. another thing, when Sony, HK (Citation), Proceed, etc were around gear seemed to be cheaper. Now you have much smaller companies taking up a larger segment of the space.

Here's one recent example- the new stereo KT88 amp from Zesto is a mind blowing 12.5k. It weighs 50 lbs and is open chassis with a simple P/P ultralinear circuit. I owned a Cary V12 in 2001 that retailed for 4k.

I see your point, but fortunately there are exceptions, and last year I was so lucky to purchase some of these. For its tremendous performance, my Berkeley Alpha DAC 2 was incredibly cheap at $ 5K, and so were the 2 external BorderPatrol MB Power Supply Units for my tube monoblocks at $ 2K each. The latter were a direct sale from the manufacturer though, who is his own 'dealer' (locally in the Maryland area, shipping everywhere else).

My room treatment from ASC (6 tubetraps, 1 subtrap and 11 sound panels) was, relative to the enhancement of performance, also ludicrously cheap at $ 6K. Anyway, without room treatment you can spend $ 100K on a system and it may still sound disappointing because your room acoustics severely interfere, so money spent in that area may pay off tremendously.

 

[DSkip]

I'm going to throw a different theory out there. My youth aside (still a while until I hit my third decade in this world), it seems like 30-40 years ago during audio's heyday, not only did it not have to compete with the video side, but everything was much simpler. Cables weren't components, rooms didn't get full-on treatments, and you didn't have 5 figure power conditioners to make your system "come alive". Everything outside of the source, preamp, amp, and speakers was but an afterthought to the vast majority that participated in the hobby. Now, looking to get into the "high end" costs so much more because there are so many components that are now truly considered components in the system. The thought of dropping $100 on a power cord used to make me shake my head. You've got to get in pretty deep to decide to dabble in the upper echelon, and once you do, you've got to commit to all components, not just this or that.

I guess my theory is that the more we learn, the harder it is to get to perfection, and the more daunting a task it becomes mentally, emotionally, and financially.

 

[Alrainbow]

Well after reading this thread and agreeing with some of it I can add this. First who am I. Well I am a consumer only.
I have nothing to do with this industry either so I am a real honest non affiliation point of view. Ok hate me yet read on.
I am 56 and have been an audio nut all my life. And yes not an audiophile , why I have not had any higher education in this hobby. So as I'm not formally eduacated in audio engineering or recording this is how I feel. Now what's wrong in this hobby, nothing really as every thing always changes and as of now we are so flooded with many forms of entertainment.
And yes this hobby is a form of enertainment guys , there is video that not one of you consider in this hobby.
Another fact I see that most do not , is where people listen to there music. Dare I say I use a DAP with CIEM,S . Oh and you say that is not hi end audio, well you just lost a good pice of the audio community , and it's a big pice too.
I belong to a few forums and one of them is headfi.org. Well the headphone industry is booming there. A famous IEM maker sold his company about 10 years ago years ago for 25 million . Not cheap and this is one company.
But almost no one hear would consider me for being in this hobby with you, even though I have multiple systems and over 200 k in equipment. Another is blame it on the music industry as there is no really good recordings out there.
Wrong buy a better dac and it gets better . Or learn to tone your system down a little. Example I used to when I was younger race cars and motor cycles. When not racing did I still race my regular car or motor bike. The truth is there is a shorter supply then I would like in really high quality music , and even worse I really do not like classical . And there is a whole lot of good music there, so I learned to like it. Here is another thought how about we learn to evolve like most people do.
We audio nuts do not want to chAnge but I do. How is that most people here will not consider me or people like me pArt of this club. I may sound mad I'm not . I read here and there is some really good people here willing to help others . Now that is cool. But if you thought I was a headphone nut , would you?

Al. D

 

[garylkoh]

As long as you love music, I'll help you - even if you don't like my speakers. See the threads I have here sharing my experience and knowledge - even a recipe on building a computer-based music server.

IMHO the biggest problem with the high end is with all the petty territorial wars going on within the industry no one has time/energy to expand the industry. I think that the folks over at Light Harmonic started making big strides with their Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaigns (targeting headphone users by the way).

 

[Alrainbow]

That is a very kind statement . And i love your speakers too. and i hope to buy a set some day. I have speaker only setups, both infinity though old stuff.

my office is the irs 1b and my home in N.C i have the IRS V . All old but good stuff, what bothers me is that if you mention headphones people in this forum run. I just do not get it , I have headphone rigs and amps cost moe than 10k a pair . i use headphones to hear how the music should sound with out speakers and room interference. i just bought a MSB dac stack , the first thing i did was not my speakers it was my headphones. and wow did it blow away all my other dac,s.

al d

 

[JackD201]

That is a very kind statement . And i love your speakers too. and i hope to buy a set some day. I have speaker only setups, both infinity though old stuff.

my office is the irs 1b and my home in N.C i have the IRS V . All old but good stuff, what bothers me is that if you mention headphones people in this forum run. I just do not get it , I have headphone rigs and amps cost moe than 10k a pair . i use headphones to hear how the music should sound with out speakers and room interference. i just bought a MSB dac stack , the first thing i did was not my speakers it was my headphones. and wow did it blow away all my other dac,s.

al d

I think headphones are the new gateway drug Over here we had a huge bump in show attendance as far as younger people go. They were mostly members of our local headfi forum.

I don't have an all out headphone rig but I do own a few my best being a Stax 404 and amp set which suits me fine. The only reason i doesn't get much use is that I ended up with my own dedicated spaces where I could bang away without disturbing anybody.

 

[garylkoh]

While I don't do headphones (I can't stand the image in your head feeling), they do give you better resolution and clarity.

Have you tried out the Binaural+ recordings on HDTracks? David Chesky gave me a couple of albums yesterday, and out of curiosity I tried them out on headphones, and found that I do like them a lot. It's an interesting effect, because they work so well on loudspeakers as well.

Al,
There are a few senior members here who are headphone enthusiasts, so I think that you'll find that you are far more welcome than you think. The IRS Betas and the IRS V's are wonderful loudspeakers. It will not be easy to find speakers that better them. Just ask GaryProtein who also owns IRS V's.