How to Revive High-End Audio

[Alrainbow]

I have a bunch of Binaural. They sound good on speakers to. As I am on the trains a lot it just becomes the way to hear your music. I just setup a big rig in my office, but somehow I find myself reaching for headphones. And there is no better music listening experience then speakers for me . I do listen to speakers louder than headphones maybe that it. I have the IRS 1B. The beta,s are nice but that diode limiting overload is just to annoying to me.

Al. D

 

[garylkoh]

I have the IRS 1B. The beta,s are nice but that diode limiting overload is just to annoying to me.

Al. D

I agree - it's necessary because audiophiles can crank it and blow up the expensive ribbon tweeters too regularly. But I prefer it without.

With the Genesis line-source loudspeakers, I give the customer the option. I usually deliver them without, but if you have a teenage son or daughter, I can deliver them with.

 

[Alrainbow]

I'll bet . My kids blew a few fuses on me , the 1B,s just play louder before you blow a fuse. The IRS beta just pops off and on way to much. My dream was always to get the genesis you sell . Who has them to demo in NYC area ?

Al. D

 

[garylkoh]

My dream was always to get the genesis you sell . Who has them to demo in NYC area ?

Al. D

None yet. We are working on selecting a dealer in NYC by the end of 2014. I would rather take my time and get the right dealer.

 

[Alrainbow]

Ok . I thought maybe lyric , but when I asked they said no. How about New Jersey ? I really would like to hear the g7.2f .

 

[garylkoh]

Ok . I thought maybe lyric , but when I asked they said no. How about New Jersey ? I really would like to hear the g7.2f .

They are a bit further away, but Audio Den on Long Island has a pair of G7.2f's.

 

[Alrainbow]

Ok Long Island is fine , better than New Jersey.

Thanks

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Well after reading this thread and agreeing with some of it I can add this. First who am I. Well I am a consumer only.
I have nothing to do with this industry either so I am a real honest non affiliation point of view. Ok hate me yet read on.
I am 56 and have been an audio nut all my life. And yes not an audiophile , why I have not had any higher education in this hobby. So as I'm not formally eduacated in audio engineering or recording this is how I feel. Now what's wrong in this hobby, nothing really as every thing always changes and as of now we are so flooded with many forms of entertainment.
And yes this hobby is a form of enertainment guys , there is video that not one of you consider in this hobby.
Another fact I see that most do not , is where people listen to there music. Dare I say I use a DAP with CIEM,S . Oh and you say that is not hi end audio, well you just lost a good pice of the audio community , and it's a big pice too.
I belong to a few forums and one of them is headfi.org. Well the headphone industry is booming there. A famous IEM maker sold his company about 10 years ago years ago for 25 million . Not cheap and this is one company.
But almost no one hear would consider me for being in this hobby with you, even though I have multiple systems and over 200 k in equipment. Another is blame it on the music industry as there is no really good recordings out there.
Wrong buy a better dac and it gets better . Or learn to tone your system down a little. Example I used to when I was younger race cars and motor cycles. When not racing did I still race my regular car or motor bike. The truth is there is a shorter supply then I would like in really high quality music , and even worse I really do not like classical . And there is a whole lot of good music there, so I learned to like it. Here is another thought how about we learn to evolve like most people do.
We audio nuts do not want to chAnge but I do. How is that most people here will not consider me or people like me pArt of this club. I may sound mad I'm not . I read here and there is some really good people here willing to help others . Now that is cool. But if you thought I was a headphone nut , would you?

Al. D

I'll join your club, Al. I love my headphones, and there is a whole high-end headphone subculture out there. Unfortunately, there is as much excess, denial, and substitution of luxury price rationalization for real performance there as there is in the high-end mainstream. Well have to start a new club.

Tim

 

[Alrainbow]

Funny thanks. I now I came off being mad. I'm not. But I do feel slighted. Lol. Great place here much to learn.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I have a question. If the high-end industry is so moribund, why does it seem that there are more companies than ever selling products?

Nine consumer high-end audio shows being held in North America each year now? This sort of support wouldn't and couldn't have happened a few years ago (the only show was Stereophile that alternated coasts each year). Hardly evidence of a dying industry.

Had anyone actually looked at the attrition or growth rate rather than focusing on just price?

 

[Andre Marc]

I have a question. If the industry is so moribund, why does it seem that there are more companies than ever selling products?

Nine high-end audio shows being held in North America each year now? This sort of support wouldn't have happened a few years ago. Hardly evidence of a dying industry.

Had anyone actually looked at the attrition or growth rate rather than focusing on just price?

Answers:

-Many, MANY of the "companies" entering high end audio are table top operations, or vanity businesses.

-As dozens and dozens of high end companies have told me..people are attending the shows, but
ain't nobody buying in large numbers. They largely exhibit for press exposure.

Even Constellation Audio was funded by an extremely wealthy angel investor, otherwise there would be
no company. They were a "start up" in the loosest definition of the word.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Answers:

-Many, MANY of the "companies" entering high end audio are table top operations, or vanity businesses.

When hasn't it been and most companies in the industry started that way. It's always been the last bastion of the entrepeneur.

-As dozens and dozens of high end companies have told me..people are attending the shows, but
ain't nobody buying in large numbers. They largely exhibit for press exposure.

No one has ever sold product at shows in the history of audio shows.

Even Constellation Audio was funded by an extremely wealthy angel investor, otherwise there would be
no company. They were a "start up" in the loosest definition of the word.

Again, that's the history of the industry. And TAS is supported by a wealthy individual too. So was Fi magazine. But this seems in contradiction with statement one.

 

[KeithR]

I have a question. If the high-end industry is so moribund, why does it seem that there are more companies than ever selling products?

Nine consumer high-end audio shows being held in North America each year now? This sort of support wouldn't and couldn't have happened a few years ago (the only show was Stereophile that alternated coasts each year). Hardly evidence of a dying industry.

Had anyone actually looked at the attrition or growth rate rather than focusing on just price?

I just read the high end has fallen by a factor of 50% to a $200 million industry over the past decade. (scott hull- dont know if that is correct)

But please produce more 50k phono stages . Audio shows were sparce for many years, but now ubiquitous as so many dealers have shuttered doors. Attendance is declining again by most reports of Rmaf and Newport?

 

[Alrainbow]

Some venders do sell at shows, I for one know this as attending and buying. And I was not the only one.

Al

 

[Asamel]

This is certainly a complicated topic and one that is difficult to quantitate. Many of the players have issues of their own that have nothing to do with the industry itself. Print magazines are fighting for survival regardless of what they cover. Shows have economic challenges and are competing with each other. High end equipment may just be too pricey for the next generation.

The big question is whether the younger demographic cares about sound and if they are willing to pay for it. They certainly have more equipment choices than we did. They have more choices of entertainment as well. They hardly ever pay for music. They are used to mp3 sound and ear buds. When and how will they come to value "good sound"?

 

[Andre Marc]

This is certainly a complicated topic and one that is difficult to quantitate. Many of the players have issues of their own that have nothing to do with the industry itself. Print magazines are fighting for survival regardless of what they cover. Shows have economic challenges and are competing with each other. High end equipment may just be too pricey for the next generation.

The big question is whether the younger demographic cares about sound and if they are willing to pay for it. They certainly have more equipment choices than we did. They have more choices of entertainment as well. They hardly ever pay for music. They are used to mp3 sound and ear buds. When and how will they come to value "good sound"?

The reason the industry is shrinking is IMO..to be blunt..high end audio has NOTHING TO DO with the love of music.

Over the past two years I have become extremely disillusioned when meeting audiophiles who do not go out
to experience live music of any genre, who have tiny music collections filled with "reference" recordings,
and have very little musical knowledge.

 

[Alrainbow]

Hello I am who you speak of as I rarly go to live events and why ?
Because they almost always sound terrible. Loud is fine
But not distorted. I grew up in the disco erra
But I am a headbanger from the beginning
Anyway. The clubs had the best sound systems of any event
Outside my homes.
I'm not knocking anyone but make it clear and I will go

I live in NYC and there is a few small venues worth while
And NJ I do not know any.

I am not looking for perfection either
And I'm not calming to have answers.
As for my collection I have hundreds of red book
And many hi Rez and sacd s

But my complaint with music I buy is the QUALITY
And reviewers like you do not say if it is a good
Recording or not. So I buy and see and put as side.
Now I know the old goodies are hit and miss
But there is two many faily new of the same
Situation. And please do not take offense to my statements

Al d

 

[Andre Marc]

Hello I am who you speak of as I rarly go to live events and why ?
Because they almost always sound terrible. Loud is fine
But not distorted. I grew up in the disco erra
But I am a headbanger from the beginning
Anyway. The clubs had the best sound systems of any event
Outside my homes.
I'm not knocking anyone but make it clear and I will go

I live in NYC and there is a few small venues worth while
And NJ I do not know any.

I am not looking for perfection either
And I'm not calming to have answers.
As for my collection I have hundreds of red book
And many hi Rez and sacd s

But my complaint with music I buy is the QUALITY
And reviewers like you do not say if it is a good
Recording or not. So I buy and see and put as side.
Now I know the old goodies are hit and miss
But there is two many faily new of the same
Situation. And please do not take offense to my statements

Al d

No offense taken what so ever. It is certainly your prerogative to stay home and enjoy your small personal collection.

I am just too musically curious, and I have an insatiable thirst. If you don't, that is fine.

 

[JackD201]

That hasn't been my experience Andre. Wether it's my younger friends and family or clients, the discussions on music are always animated and fun. Back stories behind the artists, lyrics, sometimes stuff about the way the music is played when some musicians are present. The love of music crosses age and gender boundaries.

I don't know anybody that got into the high end that actually didn't have a budding collection in one media or another first. The greater (by far) majority are out to get the most out of their recordings. I have come across a few gear centric types that listen more to the sound than the music, the same guys who listen to a handful of recordings but they don't stick around very long. They often burn out and get into other things.

I can imagine how intimidating it might be for somebody just getting into it. Everything has gotten so technical. With downloading and ripping becoming more and more common, I've found myself having to write primers for clients. A huge chunk of what I wrote I had to learn. I've been spending a lot of time doing support over the phone as well. Quite funny as I was complaining to my partners that I've reached the age where I now have to RTFM. LOL!

I think it has reached a point where a lot of people starting out need at least a little hand holding. The kind that takes into account not just their personal preferences but also their "daily rhythms". By that I mean their existing habits and their level of technological inclination. There are varying levels of involvement ranging from "I just want to push one button" and "I'm gonna tweak the hell out of this (&%*^%^(!" Ironically these aren't about what we sell, it's about what we don't. Their computers!

In the end, I think it is all about proper exposure. By that I mean exposure to quality that is immediately attainable.

 

[Andre Marc]

That hasn't been my experience Andre. Wether it's my younger friends and family or clients, the discussions on music are always animated and fun. Back stories behind the artists, lyrics, sometimes stuff about the way the music is played when some musicians are present. The love of music crosses age and gender boundaries.

I don't know anybody that got into the high end that actually didn't have a budding collection in one media or another first. The greater (by far) majority are out to get the most out of their recordings. I have come across a few gear centric types that listen more to the sound than the music, the same guys who listen to a handful of recordings but they don't stick around very long. They often burn out and get into other things.

I can imagine how intimidating it might be for somebody just getting into it. Everything has gotten so technical. With downloading and ripping becoming more and more common, I've found myself having to write primers for clients. A huge chunk of what I wrote I had to learn. I've been spending a lot of time doing support over the phone as well. Quite funny as I was complaining to my partners that I've reached the age where I now have to RTFM. LOL!

I think it has reached a point where a lot of people starting out need at least a little hand holding. The kind that takes into account not just their personal preferences but also their "daily rhythms". By that I mean their existing habits and their level of technological inclination. There are varying levels of involvement ranging from "I just want to push one button" and "I'm gonna tweak the hell out of this (&%*^%^(!" Ironically these aren't about what we sell, it's about what we don't. Their computers!

In the end, I think it is all about proper exposure. By that I mean exposure to quality that is immediately attainable.

Thanks for the great post Jack. I am sure that has been your experience.

Not mine, especially recently. The proof is in the pudding. Number don't lie.