How to Revive High-End Audio

[microstrip]

(...) I can imagine how intimidating it might be for somebody just getting into it. Everything has gotten so technical. With downloading and ripping becoming more and more common, I've found myself having to write primers for clients. A huge chunk of what I wrote I had to learn. I've been spending a lot of time doing support over the phone as well. Quite funny as I was complaining to my partners that I've reached the age where I now have to RTFM. LOL!

I think it has reached a point where a lot of people starting out need at least a little hand holding. The kind that takes into account not just their personal preferences but also their "daily rhythms". By that I mean their existing habits and their level of technological inclination. There are varying levels of involvement ranging from "I just want to push one button" and "I'm gonna tweak the hell out of this (&%*^%^(!"

In the end, I think it is all about proper exposure. By that I mean exposure to quality that is immediately attainable.

Jack,

Every hobby needs standards - we had them in audio such as FM radio, CD or LP. IMHO virtual digital high-end is becoming a jungle, specially in the high-end. Primers for clients? A lot of time doing support over the phone? And we still ask why the high-end is falling ...

 

[JackD201]

Not surprising to have diverging experiences between two people in the same neighborhood much less two people half a world away. I don't see people waiting in line to get into audio shops like you might see in front of an Apple store or a Gamestop so I see where you're coming from. Nor do I see that changing either. I guess what I'm saying is I refuse to believe music appreciation is dying. The hi-end industry might die but that won't and for as long as there are people that love music there will be a subset that will want to hear it in a better way. Whatever way that might be.

 

[Andre Marc]

Not surprising to have diverging experiences between two people in the same neighborhood much less two people half a world away. I don't see people waiting in line to get into audio shops like you might see in front of an Apple store or a Gamestop so I see where you're coming from. Nor do I see that changing either. I guess what I'm saying is I refuse to believe music appreciation is dying. The hi-end industry might die but that won't and for as long as there are people that love music there will be a subset that will want to hear it in a better way. Whatever way that might be.

actually my opinion was not formed by the fact that dealers are closing or that there are no lines to get in..it is via my personal interaction
with audiophiles..a common thread is they don't go to clubs to see bands, they rarely if ever go to see classical concerts, and have
very small music collections. I have had some shocking conversations with audiophiles with systems that truly dazzle in cost but
who have never heard of artists like Peter Gabriel, or Seal, or even more well known. These guys were not chamber music snobs, either,
as they had rock and pop in their collections.

Music appreciation and the LOVE of music are two different thinks. Those who love music will seek it out wherever it is. Not just
in head in a vice man cave set up. I can't live that way.

 

[Andre Marc]

Jack,

Every hobby needs standards - we had them in audio such as FM radio, CD or LP. IMHO virtual digital high-end is becoming a jungle, specially in the high-end. Primers for clients? A lot of time doing support over the phone? And we still ask why the high-end is falling ...

CD is still the standard for 95% of those with digital source components. That is a fact.

 

[JackD201]

Jack,

Every hobby needs standards - we had them in audio such as FM radio, CD or LP. IMHO virtual digital high-end is becoming a jungle, specially in the high-end. Primers for clients? A lot of time doing support over the phone? And we still ask why the high-end is falling ...

It's always that way with anything new. Format wars are not the sole stomping ground of audio. It's a period of survival of the fittest. Standards will form up eventually. As merely a goods and service provider, I just have to deal with what's here now. I'm not even at getting things to sound their best yet, I'm just at helping people get their music playing in the first place.

It's analogous to teaching your Dad to use a computer or a tablet or even a cell phone. In fact, many a time, it's exactly like that. You can't push them into using the terminal or clog up their brains with theory and specs if they aren't inclined. The area that is doing fairly well in high end homes is custom installations precisely because things are designed so the owners don't have to deal with the technical nitty gritty.

 

[Andre Marc]

It's always that way with anything new. Format wars are not the sole stomping ground of audio. It's a period of survival of the fittest. Standards will form up eventually. As merely a goods and service provider, I just have to deal with what's here now. I'm not even at getting things to sound their best yet, I'm just at helping people get their music playing in the first place.

It's analogous to teaching your Dad to use a computer or a tablet or even a cell phone. In fact, many a time, it's exactly like that. You can't push them into using the terminal or clog up their brains with theory and specs if they aren't inclined. The area that is doing fairly well in high end homes is custom installations precisely because things are designed so the owners don't have to deal with the technical nitty gritty.

format standards, again, have nothing to do with music. it is a side topic...i agree.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I agree with jack , it might not be a big market , but it probably never was , and with the Asian economies thriving ( the EU is dumb enough to introduce plan economy again ) its merely the market geography that's is changing

 

[KeithR]

actually my opinion was not formed by the fact that dealers are closing or that there are no lines to get in..it is via my personal interaction
with audiophiles..a common thread is they don't go to clubs to see bands, they rarely if ever go to see classical concerts, and have
very small music collections. I have had some shocking conversations with audiophiles with systems that truly dazzle in cost but
who have never heard of artists like Peter Gabriel, or Seal, or even more well known. These guys were not chamber music snobs, either,
as they had rock and pop in their collections.

Music appreciation and the LOVE of music are two different thinks. Those who love music will seek it out wherever it is. Not just
in head in a vice man cave set up. I can't live that way.

I played Mumford & Sons two years ago in show rooms and was floored how many people had never heard of them.

I am beginning to think analog is the savior of the high end- people can get by with mp3 and iPhones, but analog requires a larger investment. As analog grows, so does the high end.

 

[JackD201]

actually my opinion was not formed by the fact that dealers are closing or that there are no lines to get in..it is via my personal interaction
with audiophiles..a common thread is they don't go to clubs to see bands, they rarely if ever go to see classical concerts, and have
very small music collections. I have had some shocking conversations with audiophiles with systems that truly dazzle in cost but
who have never heard of artists like Peter Gabriel, or Seal, or even more well known. These guys were not chamber music snobs, either,
as they had rock and pop in their collections.

Music appreciation and the LOVE of music are two different thinks. Those who love music will seek it out wherever it is. Not just
in head in a vice man cave set up. I can't live that way.

We can't all be music nerds Hey, they like what they like. As long as they're happy.

 

[Andre Marc]

We can't all be music nerds Hey, they like what they like. As long as they're happy.

Agree, I personally am the extreme..music is an obession..I am fully aware that I can't expect this from the majority,
but there has to be something in between music nerd and musically incurious parlour audiophile and their Kodo drum
and Patricia Barber recordings.

 

[Andre Marc]

I played Mumford & Sons two years ago in show rooms and was floored how many people had never heard of them.

I am beginning to think analog is the savior of the high end- people can get by with mp3 and iPhones, but analog requires a larger investment. As analog grows, so does the high end.

At audio shows, when I name check artists who have broken through so that even an incurious observer may have heard of them, I am astounded
at the blank faces from show goers and exhibitors alike.

 

[JackD201]

Agree, I personally am the extreme..music is an obession..I am fully aware that I can't expect this from the majority,
but there has to be something in between music nerd and musically incurious parlour audiophile and their Kodo drum
and Patricia Barber recordings.

You get an amen from me there

 

[jn229]

The problem with high end audio is not product interest, not products, not even product cost; it is the ever shrinking amount of disposable income of the middle to upper middle classes. Just my humble middle class opinion.

 

[microstrip]

It's always that way with anything new. Format wars are not the sole stomping ground of audio. It's a period of survival of the fittest. Standards will form up eventually. As merely a goods and service provider, I just have to deal with what's here now. I'm not even at getting things to sound their best yet, I'm just at helping people get their music playing in the first place.

It's analogous to teaching your Dad to use a computer or a tablet or even a cell phone. In fact, many a time, it's exactly like that. You can't push them into using the terminal or clog up their brains with theory and specs if they aren't inclined. The area that is doing fairly well in high end homes is custom installations precisely because things are designed so the owners don't have to deal with the technical nitty gritty.

Happily it is not always that way with anything new! Hoping that standards will form up eventually by market sellection, without any industry guidance or support is not reasonable. IMHO when you say that The area that is doing fairly well in high end homes is custom installations precisely because things are designed so the owners don't have to deal with the technical nitty gritty, shows you do a good job and are a good professional, but will not attract new people to high-end. Anyway, extreme dependence was never a good long time marketing strategy.

And no, it is not at all like teaching your Dad. Please do not mix a generational problem with the nightmare of configurating a music server.

BTW, I would love to receive your primer. Is it possible? And please consider that this is just my perspective, coming from a small country in Europe.

 

[Andre Marc]

The problem with high end audio is not product interest, not products, not even product cost; it is the ever shrinking amount of disposable income of the middle to upper middle classes. Just my humble middle class opinion.

There are more high quality affordable products available now than at any other time in the history of the hobby. It is NOT income related. It is interest.

 

[JackD201]

I did not mean for it to be generational but I think you got my point. Substitute Dad with former classmate who skipped all his computer classes to smoke weed under the bleechers or whatever. The point remains, there is a world out there full of people that have never opened System Preferences. I'm talking about plug and play devices that require only selecting the proper device. Not so sure what you'd learn from one of these primers that you don't already know. I didn't know writing things in layman's terms could be so hard. With some people you throw in a technical term and you literally see their facial expressions lock.

 

[853guy]

There are more high quality affordable products available now than at any other time in the history of the hobby.

True. There are also more low-quality products and insanely-priced products than ever before, offering playback via CD, SACD, downloads, Hi-Res downloads, vinyl and tape. The world is our oyster.

It is NOT income related. It is interest.

Not true.

Andre, are you married? Do you have kids? A house with a mortgage?

If not, then it may be difficult to understand the difference between income and disposable income.

I'll keep it brief:

I was once a music nerd too. Every week I would buy between two and ten albums across a broad spectrum of new, old and re-releases on Warp, Harmonia Mundi, ECM, Barooni, DG, Impulse, Sony Masterworks, Tzadik, JMT, Winter & Winter, hatHUT, Blue Note, Nothing, etc, etc. I had a massive Naim system, and then a Wadia/VTL/Dynaudio combo and then an all-vinyl system with heavily modified custom components.

But then I got married. Had kids. Bought a house. Got made redundant. Lost a house (gotta love 2008..!). Changed careers. Moved cities. Moved countries.

Now my options are:

Jeffrey Jackson custom-built 300B monos or health insurance for a year. Or new carbon rims for my single speed mountain bike. Or sports fees for the kids. Or winter clothes. Or repairs to our 14-year old Volvo. Or food.

It's no longer "yes, and", it's either/or.

Things have indeed changed. And until we have better fortune or our kids leave home, the hand-built power cables and Permalloy monos I would dearly love to have remain firmly ensconced out of reach.

Nothing to do with interest. Everything to do with reality. Sorry.

 

[Andre Marc]

True. There are also more low-quality products and insanely-priced products than ever before, offering playback via CD, SACD, downloads, Hi-Res downloads, vinyl and tape. The world is our oyster.



Not true.

Andre, are you married? Do you have kids? A house with a mortgage?

If not, then it may be difficult to understand the difference between income and disposable income.

I'll keep it brief:

I was once a music nerd too. Every week I would buy between two and ten albums across a broad spectrum of new, old and re-releases on Warp, Harmonia Mundi, ECM, Barooni, DG, Impulse, Sony Masterworks, Tzadik, JMT, Winter & Winter, hatHUT, Blue Note, Nothing, etc, etc. I had a massive Naim system, and then a Wadia/VTL/Dynaudio combo and then an all-vinyl system with heavily modified custom components.

But then I got married. Had kids. Bought a house. Got made redundant. Lost a house (gotta love 2008..!). Changed careers. Moved cities. Moved countries.

Now my options are:

Jeffrey Jackson custom-built 300B monos or health insurance for a year. Or new carbon rims for my single speed mountain bike. Or sports fees for the kids. Or winter clothes. Or repairs to our 14-year old Volvo. Or food.

It's no longer "yes, and", it's either/or.

Things have indeed changed. And until we have better fortune or our kids leave home, the hand-built power cables and Permalloy monos I would dearly love to have remain firmly ensconced out of reach.

Nothing to do with interest. Everything to do with reality. Sorry.

Sorry, not my reality. Married, mortgage, taxes the whole bit..no kids.

Folks can easily find the dough for 60 inch TVs, trips to Vegas, wine, and other luxuries. It is a matter of PRIORITIES.

I find it hard to believe a middle class to upper middle class hobbyist cannot invest $5000-$6000 on a dedicated playback system.

EDIT: Even $3000 gets you something that would astonish owners of $20,000 systems 30 years ago.

 

[KeithR]

I find it hard to believe a middle class to upper middle class hobbyist cannot invest $5000-$6000 on a dedicated playback system.

EDIT: Even $3000 gets you something that would astonish owners of $20,000 systems 30 years ago.

first, the proliferation of headphones means that music is en vogue- it just doesn't translate to *** high end. people wearing Beats aren't buying 30k Magicos, period.

the 5-6k system is now made in China. no thanks for many folks. and many manufacturers (Vac for instance) don't make anything under 10k now. anything! the big problem is in the middle at the 10k-20k system level. you either go really cheap or 50k. and there just aren't enough 50k buyers out there. i beleive the average Stereophile system is in that middle (forget JA's number off hand)

there is a great article on Positive Feedback right now about the high end death spiral related to pricing- very interesting read.

 

[853guy]

Sorry, not my reality. Married, mortgage, taxes the whole bit..no kids.

Folks can easily find the dough for 60 inch TVs, trips to Vegas, wine, and other luxuries. It is a matter of PRIORITIES.

I find it hard to believe a middle class to upper middle class hobbyist cannot invest $5000-$6000 on a dedicated playback system.

EDIT: Even $3000 gets you something that would astonish owners of $20,000 systems 30 years ago.

Whew! Where to start with all those gross generalisations...? Hmm.

Have you looked at the default rates of credit cards or mortgages in the last five years - the way most consumers have historically funded purchase of a 60" flat screen or trip to Vegas?

Don't bother looking it up, I tell you. It's lower than it has been for years. Do you know why? Because those default rates don't take into account the number of debts that were written off, rather than paid off, meaning that although defaults have decreased, actual indebtedness has increased. And, because banks and credit companies had to tighten their lending criteria after so many defaults and write-offs, there is less easy money around than there was pre-2007/2008.

Therefore, that $5-6K you think is available for middle to upper-middle income earners simply isn't there to borrow as easily anymore. Not if you also need health and dental for three kids.

Also, if you were a hobbyist who bought a really well-balanced system for $20K 30 years ago before the invention of the compact disc, do you really think that same consumer is now in the market to upgrade to a MacBook Pro, a 2TB hard drive a USB DAC and er...? Wait, you can't play vinyl on a MacBook Pro?

Anyway, I'm done.

At least you have your priorities right. Sure is a big lesson to everyone else.