How to Revive High-End Audio

[Andre Marc]

IMHO, the top end of pricing for audio gear is only about those who feel the need to have the latest and/or greatest. There's a significant amount of stuff available and/or coming at much more reasonable prices. Just look at Magico and Rockport's latest offerings; less expensive versions of what are already mid-priced (in their lines) best sellers. Speakers around $10k? NOLA, Vandersteen, Magenpan, etc offer some pretty nice ones.

I'm with Andre here; it's more about interest and priorities than actual pricing. You can get a pretty outstanding system for the price of one year at a private college/university (I undertand that few people actually have to pay the full amount for that college year; it was just for illustration. Most people don't have to buy audio gear at MSRP either).

rbbert, I can't imagine a true music lover who REALLY gives a damn of middle class means not being able to stretch to by this ALL IN ONE beautiful $2200 piece from NAIM...50 watt amp, 192 Khz DAC, streamer, file player AND tuner..just add speakers and cables.

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/naim-unitiqute-2-all-in-one-player/

I can easily recommend dozens of speakers less $1000 that would be suitable.

This is investing $3000 in a system that could please for a decade +..hell why not more..

 

[Andre Marc]

I am very glad to hear that I am not alone in this wilderness and that it still can be about the music among fellow audiophiles.

+1. Hoping to get Lucinda Williams tickets for the Belly Up Tavern in Feb!

FYI..I saw two really, really good bands last month..Polica, from MN, and Elephant Stone from the UK. Great stuff!

 

[Al M.]

Oops, sorry I deleted my post (which I planned to repost) before I saw your reply. There was something weird with an icon in the post...

Sounds great about the bands! I already look forward to the Sound Icon (classical avantgarde) concert in Boston in March:

http://www.soundicon.org/#!events/cwv9

 

[Andre Marc]

Oops, sorry I deleted my post (which I planned to repost) before I saw your reply. There was something weird with an icon in the post...

No worries, nice system by the way!

 

[Al M.]

No worries, nice system by the way!

Thanks, yours too!

I have upgraded my system recently with massive external power supplies (BorderPatrol) for the amps; review forthcoming.

 

[Andre Marc]

Thanks, yours too!

I have upgraded my system recently with massive external power supplies (BorderPatrol) for the amps; review forthcoming.

Funny, I just updated my system profile a minute ago after you mentioned it..I realized it was a bit outdated..

 

[Al M.]

Funny, I just updated my system profile a minute ago after you mentioned it..I realized it was a bit outdated..

Yes, I saw it, nice!

I guess I'll update my profile too.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

rbbert, I can't imagine a true music lover who REALLY gives a damn of middle class means not being able to stretch to by this ALL IN ONE beautiful $2200 piece from NAIM...50 watt amp, 192 Khz DAC, streamer, file player AND tuner..just add speakers and cables.

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/naim-unitiqute-2-all-in-one-player/

I can easily recommend dozens of speakers less $1000 that would be suitable.

This is investing $3000 in a system that could please for a decade +..hell why not more..

Over priced. For half that money, you could buy an excellent pair of active speakers with a comparable built-in DAC, DSP, and way more power/clean headroom. Cleaner and more powerful, even if you don't think active is better (and it is ). Of course taste is subjective, but by all objective metrics and my ears, I'll take the actives, spend the speaker money on a good sub and that Naim will be totally out-classed. Brought to its knees before the active system even breaks sweat, and more articulate, with much better imaging at low volume too. Every once in a while a high-end company tries to be efficient. They just don't know how.

MHO. YMMV.

Tim

 

[Andre Marc]

Over priced. For half that money, you could buy an excellent pair of active speakers with a comparable built-in DAC, DSP, and way more power/clean headroom. Cleaner and more powerful, even if you don't think active is better (and it is ). Of course taste is subjective, but by all objective metrics and my ears, I'll take the actives, spend the speaker money on a good sub and that Naim will be totally out-classed. Brought to its knees before the active system even breaks sweat, and more articulate, with much better imaging at low volume too. Every once in a while a high-end company tries to be efficient. They just don't know how.

MHO. YMMV.

Tim

Tim, First, I am a believer in active speakers. But you make a blanket statement.

With all due respect, your usual reaction is something is "over priced" if it is over 600 hundred bucks.

I suggest taking a closer look.

Find me active speakers that do 192 Khz with the built in DAC. Find me one that accepts external storage. Find me one that steams
files via network, and has an FM tuner.

Over priced? I think not. Sorry your off base here.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim, First, I am a believer in active speakers. But you make a blanket statement.

I do. That doesn't mean it's an inaccurate one.

With all due respect, your usual reaction is something is "over priced" if it is over 600 hundred bucks.

Close. My usual reaction to "high-end" is over-priced. You won't find me complaining about a good $600 guitar.

Find me active speakers that do 192 Khz with the built in DAC.

Find me a human that hears 21k and I'll care. I can easily find you actives that do 96K, that should be good enough for the rare blue tick hound audiophile.

Find me one that accepts external storage. Find me one that steams
files via network, and has an FM tuner.

I've got an extra grand. Two grand if I skip the sub. I think I can cover this.

Over priced? I think not. Sorry your off base here.

Ok, ok...under-performing.

Tim

 

[Andre Marc]

I do. That doesn't mean it's an inaccurate one.



Close. My usual reaction to "high-end" is over-priced. You won't find me complaining about a good $600 guitar.



Find me a human that hears 21k and I'll care. I can easily find you actives that do 96K, that should be good enough for the rare blue tick hound audiophile.



I've got an extra grand. Two grand if I skip the sub. I think I can cover this.



Ok, ok...under-performing.

Tim

Too dismissive.

Anyway, Their customer base has spoken. This is one of Naim's best selling products. A friend just returned from a factory tour and they can't make them fast enough.

 

[GaryProtein]

. . . Find me a human that hears 21k and I'll care. . . .

Tim

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

 

[Mosin]

Same with RMAF this year. The halls and rooms were as empty as i have ever seen them.

Our room stayed full.

Not to disparage other vendors, but many need to do something in order to attract attention. How many rooms have you gone into only to forget what you saw and heard in a space of five minutes? Dr. Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg had it right when he mixed daiquiris in a blender powered by his amp at the 1985 CES. To top it off, he did it while wearing a kimono. People remember that to this day. For a vendor, being remembered should be the point of doing a show.

If vendors would concentrate on making their rooms more interesting, rather than making excuses about why theirs sucked, shows would be packed. Not taking any risks at a show is the biggest risk of all.

I just read the high end has fallen by a factor of 50% to a $200 million industry over the past decade. (scott hull- dont know if that is correct)

But please produce more 50k phono stages . Audio shows were sparce for many years, but now ubiquitous as so many dealers have shuttered doors. Attendance is declining again by most reports of Rmaf and Newport?

That 50% decline may be misleading. It is true that dealers have shuttered their doors, but the cottage industry has grown. And, a lot of the cottage industry is off the audio grid, as far as statistics are concerned. Many operate as a sideline to a machine shop, a cabinet shop, a design firm, etc., etc. Others are simply unofficial, and do business under the radar. Then, there is the matter of money changing hands. Cottage industry guys are much more likely to barter with their products, so a fixed dollar amount can no longer be applied to the high-end audio industry. All bets are off as to its true size.

 

[KeithR]

Very short sighted. This is an aspirational hobby. Folks start out with 3K systems then move up when circumstances allow. As I did. Nobody walks in the door
and buys a 50K set up as their first system.

The hobby has not shrunk because of lower priced, better performing gear, it has shrunk due to snobbishness.

Your missing the point- with the apparent proliferation of headphones, cheap turntables, and budget gear to assemble those 3k systems, there should be more audiophiles. This would ultimately mean more upgrades, expensive purchases, etc. That hasn't happened if the business has really shrunk 50%.

The problem as I see it is the guy with a 15k system (the average Stereophile reader). I think the pricing of new components has gotten out of touch with that guy's audio budget. And he's the guy who loves audio already.

 

[KeithR]

PS..can you link article?

http://positive-feedback.com/Issue71/skoff.htm

 

[mep]

How about a Magnepan Super MMG system which sells brand new for $1199 and a brand new Rogue Sphinx integrated amp that sells for $1300. Assuming no discounts, that still leaves you $500 for speaker cables if you don't have any or $500 towards a CD/computer music server to play tunes with.

 

[Andre Marc]

Your missing the point- with the apparent proliferation of headphones, cheap turntables, and budget gear to assemble those 3k systems, there should be more audiophiles. This would ultimately mean more upgrades, expensive purchases, etc. That hasn't happened if the business has really shrunk 50%.

The problem as I see it is the guy with a 15k system (the average Stereophile reader). I think the pricing of new components has gotten out of touch with that guy's audio budget. And he's the guy who loves audio already.

Actually, interestingly enough, I think our views are converging. I DON'T think prices are keeping people
away from the hobby.

It is a LACK OF INTEREST and the reason interest has not expanded is MUSICAL IN-CURIOSITY among current audiophiles.
which make it impossible for them to ever possibly mentor the uninitiated.

IF there is an interest in a household, then the inexpensive, high quality system is important because it gets them in the door.

You mentioned something about China in connection to entry level gear...which I really don't know how that ties in...

People buy $2000 Mac Book Pros made in China as well as $2000 TVs without blinking. Non factor IMO.

 

[Alrainbow]

Not all the shops are snobby , but I do feel a little stressed when auditioning equipment , example . Lyric in NYC is a place I have been going to more than twenty years or more. But when I go there they are nice but I do feel a little uneasy but that is on me .as every time I have bought something weather it was 2000 or 22000. And I have spent that much there at one time they are always kind and very informative of my choices. Recently I put together a 16k used system . I hand picked from various sources the equipment . When completed It had become apparent I needed a much better dac. As the new system reviled the dacs, underperformance . I chose the MSB platinum stack. The point is when done I wanted a improved power base . So innovated audio being an MSB dealer is where I went . After I had a conversation with Vince there national salesman. He was extremely kind and gave me a quick understanding of what I needed . At this point I made an appointment and auditioned the new part and purchased . All involved was extremely helpful in this. Now maybe cause I'm 57 years old and have just accepted who I am and who they are. But MSB, AND INNOVATED AUDIO all strangers to me helped me out greatly. Now maybe they were not like this 5 years ago I do not know. But they all were stellar now.

Al

 

[Andre Marc]

How about a Magnepan Super MMG system which sells brand new for $1199 and a brand new Rogue Sphinx integrated amp that sells for $1300. Assuming no discounts, that still leaves you $500 for speaker cables if you don't have any or $500 towards a CD/computer music server to play tunes with.

Mep, the system could be $300, if there is no interest, it does not matter. BTW, my review of the Sphinx (great value) is the current issue of Tone.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

It's not so much a lack of interest as it it a changing landscape in terms of how people want their music delivered. The old days of a dedicated 2-channel listening station (no matter what the price-point) are gone. People want convenience.....they want a one-stop system that meets all of their music, video and gaming needs. One room...one place.