I don't know, Myles. I have known a few to do just that. "Most" may be an overstatement though. I believe that the price point of a particular piece of gear has a bit to do with that though.
Tom
Tom
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Ahh Haa, now to prove it ...
Well out of the last 10 components that I've received for review, only two were broken in (a cartridge after RMAF and the MIT cables).
Tom:
I must say that this "second guessing" is a bit annoying. I'm speaking from experience and all I'm getting are people speculating.
OK here goes:
Four phono sections priced from $4500 to $12,000: none broken in. In fact, one phono section takes 700 hours because of the silver wound step up transformers to break in.
Four cartridges priced from $4000 to $10,000: one broken in because brought it back after RMAF.
Two amplifiers at $17,500 and $35,000: neither broken in
Four sets of cables: from $1500/meter to $5000/meter for the ICs, one partially broken in.
One PLC at $7500: not broken in.
So that's fifteen components over the last two years. What evidence do you have to the contrary?
Just look at most reviews and note that that the equipment wasn't broken in either.
*sigh*
No second guessing, Myles. Just stating my own personal observations. I just so happen to agree with both parties but I do think that a price point has much to do with it....based upon my own experience. With me not wanting to go head to head with anybody on this forum, I'll just say that I have stated this as an opinion and observation only. Nothing more, nothing less. YMMV, FWIW, IMO, IME and all that jazz.
I think I'll slide out now...
Tom
No second guessing, Myles. Just stating my own personal observations. I just so happen to agree with both parties but I do think that a price point has much to do with it....based upon my own experience. With me not wanting to go head to head with anybody on this forum, I'll just say that I have stated this as an opinion and observation only. Nothing more, nothing less. YMMV, FWIW, IMO, IME and all that jazz.
I think I'll slide out now...
Tom
Sorry Tom, I wish stuff came broken-in. My biggest complaint and PITA when reviewing.
In the exotic car business, there are 'press' cars- the ones that are turned over to magazine writers for review. Suffice to say those are thoroughly broken in, but not because the manufacturer planned it that way. I would guess* that at a high price point, some of this equipment ain't being handed out like swag so the same piece of equipment makes the rounds and may have some 'miles'** on it.
*Admission of pure speculation
**Sheer coincidence that this sounds like "Myles" name, but merely in jest.
I would guess* that at a high price point, some of this equipment ain't being handed out like swag so the same piece of equipment makes the rounds and may have some 'miles'** on it. *Admission of pure speculation
**Sheer coincidence that this sounds like "Myles" name, but merely in jest.
-- I just did a quick "bing" search with few key words, and it showed 55,770,000 results on the very first try!
Here's the first entry: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/usher2/tinydancer.html
* Just go to the bottom of that review, and in blue letterings you have some description on the produt's origin and condition.
________________________
I don't want to bring a multitude of links where the professional audio reviewers told us exactly the situation regarding already broken-in products that they reviewed. It happens quite often, and we all know the behind-the-scene deals that sometimes happen between certain audio manufacturers and professional audio reviewers. We've already read several stories in that regard.
We weren't born yesterday; and we are quite smart and knowledgeable. ...We take the average, and not just one's opinion.
Here's the first entry: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/usher2/tinydancer.html
* Just go to the bottom of that review, and in blue letterings you have some description on the produt's origin and condition.
________________________
I don't want to bring a multitude of links where the professional audio reviewers told us exactly the situation regarding already broken-in products that they reviewed. It happens quite often, and we all know the behind-the-scene deals that sometimes happen between certain audio manufacturers and professional audio reviewers. We've already read several stories in that regard.
We weren't born yesterday; and we are quite smart and knowledgeable. ...We take the average, and not just one's opinion.
How does one confirm or deny if a product was burnt in before shipping , if memory serves me right it was not uncommon in the speaker industry to burn speakers in for at least 14 hrs , frequency swept and then nulled tested before shipping ....
One would only know if they were told ....
One would only know if they were told ....
Don't most manufacturers disclose their quality control procedures either by describing them or at least providing the information if asked? Because I would assume that the kind of burn-in you are describing Wayne is more of that nature- rather than a long term 'running in' period of the type that ARC recommends (e.g. 500 hours).
I'm not sure why ARC would require 500 hrs Whart, sounds ridiculous to me , considering tube life and all, How long is the warranty ....
If sending out to a reviewer I'm sure most are preconditioning , in a sense why not, why would i send Myles a unit for review and not pre burn in , how would Myles know if it was or not , it's not like there's an Odometer ....
If sending out to a reviewer I'm sure most are preconditioning , in a sense why not, why would i send Myles a unit for review and not pre burn in , how would Myles know if it was or not , it's not like there's an Odometer ....
I'm not sure why ARC would require 500 hrs , sounds ridiculous to me , considering tube life and all, How long is the warranty ....
Haven't checked. And I'm not singling out ARC, just using it as an example (I owned a lot of their stuff over the years and like the company). Does remind me of a situation, though, when we had the facade of our old brownstone resurfaced years ago, the contractor said he offered a lifetime warranty: as long as he was still alive, he would make sure it didn't fall apart.
---- And what is the percentage of honest ones in proportion to dishonest ones?
Who knows the exact answer to that question?
How do we know for sure (unless told by honest people in the biz) that a certain product was not "cooked" before being packed as brand new in the box, and sent to a pro audio reviewer?
And furthermore, that the real products sold to consumers, us, were a bit different in their final implementation!
Nowadays it's all 'bout firmware updates and upgrades through the Internet highway, inside the IC chips of our electronic digital 'machines'.
Manufacturers don't have to finish a product anymore before releasing it!
That's the way it is and that's the world we now live in; very fast!
A. Wayne: I'm responding to the point you added, about why manufacturers would not pre-burn in a product. I'm guessing here, but as I said a little earlier in this thread, I suspect they wouldn't want to be accused of giving the reviewer anything different than what the average Joe gets if he buys the unit. That doesn't account for review samples that get passed around among various reviewers, come from shows, etc. which was why I mentioned the 'press cars' that get the **** beat out of them. I assume a certain amount of good faith in the business, perhaps I'm naive. I remember complaints about running changes in some reviews- where the reviewer criticized something, and lo and behold, the manufacturer claimed that was a bad sample or that they had already addressed that problem in a newer iteration, but at best, those are anecodotal recollections on my part. I also know that there is an art to repacking a piece of equipment (I sold this stuff as a kid back in the early 70's), but you can pretty much tell when a unit is factory fresh, can't you? If the manufacturer doesn't claim that they did some sort of long term 'running in' or preconditioning of their product, something that could be established pretty quickly by a phone call or email, I think it is safe to assume, all other things mentioned being taken into account, that the product is a fresh example that requires burn-in. Again, I may be naive here. But Myles experience as a reviewer is instructive. And if there are manufacturers who could weigh in, that could be instructive too. I suspect that just having the equipment sitting for a week or whatever being run in adds to their overhead and reduces their ability to deliver product and get paid for it.I'm not sure why ARC would require 500 hrs Whart, sounds ridiculous to me , considering tube life and all, How long is the warranty ....
If sending out to a reviewer I'm sure most are preconditioning , in a sense why not, why would i send Myles a unit for review and not pre burn in , how would Myles know if it was or not , it's not like there's an Odometer ....
I would like to make it clear we are not doubting Myles , who i might add has admitted to receiving some , err, make that a few already burnt in ...
How did you request and recieve product at Audio adventure Myles ...?
How did you request and recieve product at Audio adventure Myles ...?
-- Everybody uses the same platforms (unless they are truly imaginative and creative), and the same basics; they only do their own implementation, like Lexicon did with the Oppo BDP-83 as just one example. And then they charge whatever they think it's fair, or unfair but without telling us.
Audio people, us, we are getting smarter now with the power of the web highways, and even if manufacturers change their name and identifications we can still decipher their signature through their detailed internals and claims.
And those so called audio pro reviewers of the Internet and all, them too we have a very close eye scrutinizing all their sayings and given scores. Ya, we do keep scores.
You wanna be a pro reviewer? You'd better be real good at it, and I mean "real good" in the full sense of not only the term but also from real experience in true reality and future durability.
Today ain't solid enough, tomorrow's continuity of today. And we are way passed most electronic products from yesteryear, even from the ones that have less than six months in them!
That's how fast and realistic that they have now to be, and constantly revise their reviews if they want to be in touch with the real world.
I can give you a zillion of examples where reviewers were totally wrong in their product's assessments (reviews). It happens every day like the plague, a disease, an epidemic cancer. It's a total disgrace, an infamy, a total lack of professionalism and integrity.
They become the charlatans of our era without even knowing it themselves!
That's why we're here, to communicate and explore the truth and expose it.
...To be happier in the things that we enjoy doing, and without alienating our families and friends.
You wanna do a job, do it good or just don't do it because you make things worst in this world.
Here.
Audio people, us, we are getting smarter now with the power of the web highways, and even if manufacturers change their name and identifications we can still decipher their signature through their detailed internals and claims.
And those so called audio pro reviewers of the Internet and all, them too we have a very close eye scrutinizing all their sayings and given scores. Ya, we do keep scores.
You wanna be a pro reviewer? You'd better be real good at it, and I mean "real good" in the full sense of not only the term but also from real experience in true reality and future durability.
Today ain't solid enough, tomorrow's continuity of today. And we are way passed most electronic products from yesteryear, even from the ones that have less than six months in them!
That's how fast and realistic that they have now to be, and constantly revise their reviews if they want to be in touch with the real world.
I can give you a zillion of examples where reviewers were totally wrong in their product's assessments (reviews). It happens every day like the plague, a disease, an epidemic cancer. It's a total disgrace, an infamy, a total lack of professionalism and integrity.
They become the charlatans of our era without even knowing it themselves!
That's why we're here, to communicate and explore the truth and expose it.
...To be happier in the things that we enjoy doing, and without alienating our families and friends.
You wanna do a job, do it good or just don't do it because you make things worst in this world.
Here.
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