HP- Why I Quit the Absolute Sound or: Path to Personal Revelation

[Elliot G.]

They obviously didn't learn one lesson from HP: leave yourself wriggle room for something better

they have learned on this site the change the subject two step. It is evident when the participants cant make a point that stays on topic.
Myles you are correct there however HP could do the slide step with the best of them. He did however know how to get a system and a room sound amazing. He showed me sound that at the time I did not know was possible and that pushed me to go forward faster.

The Priaptor is a man with a sharp tongue and wit but he does have a great system and has become a good listener.
If you look at the rooms and systems of much of the review press it is to say the least skeptical IMHO in its ablity to produce what they write about.
HP I have been and l listened and JH room looks amazing however what Mr. JV and Mr. RH and others looks like it would have serious issues.
There is more than one reference however it needs to be there so the reader also has a reference in to the tastes and mind of the reviewer.

If there is none then why should anyone bother.

 

[garylkoh]

Not just phenomenal music ("paradigm shift" and "sicilian blue" in particular are tunes to die for), but also the best recorded acoustic bass on any CD I own.

I'm looking forward to receiving it.... this is what I love about this forum

 

[Priaptor]

Or at least for some latin!

"Ad hominem dominem"

Of course the great retort when someone makes an assumption and is called on the carpet for their assumption. It must an "ad hominem" attac, no??

Your perjorative assumption of me being a sycophantic follower of Valin of course as compared to "your readers" deserves whatever I threw at you particularly regarding your claim of throwing daggers at me, accusing me of being a some pathetic rich guy on an endless search suffering from GAS syndrome as quoted by some pathetic reviewer as responsible as Valin for pumping up Magico and defining the Q1s as "maybe the best speaker ever".

You guys are too easy. Call your moderators and your readers while your at it. By the way those were no daggers you threw my way but proof of your inability to assess anything objectively and hence your validity of bein capable of "reviewing"

 

[caesar]

Merry go round buying a good thing ??
People who are in a merry go round , have usually not a clue where they are going , is that a good thing?
i dont think so .
But you cant put all the magazines in one bag , i personally think soundstage does a pretty good job and includes some of the highest priced (and maybe best) stuff stereophile is also quit good .
In holland the reviewing level aint very high in general , in my opinion , when i was a hifi beginner hifi reviews mattered a lot , nowadays , i couldnt care less

I'm not sure I agree. I think it's beyond the beginner/ expert phenomena. It's more about "exploration" vs. "exploitation".

If you have lived with a speaker for 5 or 6 years and want something new, or are moving from a $10K speaker to a $30K speaker, or from a $30K speaker to state of the art, you probably need some guidance to help shorten your audition list.

Or say you are rediscovering vinyl after many years. The journey of discovery (a.k.a. the merry -go -round) can be much more fun for that individual than for someone who "knows everything about vinyl" and is more of an "exploiter" rather than an "explorer". Exploration is usually a blast. Remember when you discovered something new and fell in love with it so you couldn't let go?

But the process of exploration also can be painful with wasted time, physical effort, and money spent, or it can be made easier and even more enjoyable with good audio "edu-tainment", which includes magazines and places like this site.

 

[caesar]

"Ad hominem dominem"

Of course the great retort when someone makes an assumption and is called on the carpet for their assumption. It must an "ad hominem" attac, no??

Your perjorative assumption of me being a sycophantic follower of Valin of course as compared to "your readers" deserves whatever I threw at you particularly regarding your claim of throwing daggers at me, accusing me of being a some pathetic rich guy on an endless search suffering from GAS syndrome as quoted by some pathetic reviewer as responsible as Valin for pumping up Magico and defining the Q1s as "maybe the best speaker ever".

You guys are too easy. Call your moderators and your readers while your at it. By the way those were no daggers you threw my way but proof of your inability to assess anything objectively and hence your validity of bein capable of "reviewing"

Priaptor, I wouldn't take it personally. I know it's not pleasant to be attacked and called names, but it's not worth getting banned over this.

I know my buddy Andre is very quick with the name calling. But I think he is just jealous that guys like Valin are on the constant merry-go-round with top gear, and much more prolific at calling gear "best" than he is.

Looking at Valin's list of Bests in the last few years, we have had Kharmas, MBL 101's, MBL Xtremes, Quads, Martin Logan CLX's, Magico M's, Magico Q's, Estelons, and now Rida-hoes. This guy is so good at breaking manufacturer hearts, he makes both Casanova and Wilt Chamberlain seem like monks.

I thought guys became reviewers so they could be on the constant merry-go-round.

 

[Priaptor]

Caesar

You point is dead on.

I agree.

Andre is just jealous of Valin. Valin is indeed "king" of the merry go round. As Mel Brooks said "ah it's nice to be king"

 

[treitz3]

Hello, gentlemen and good afternoon to you all. This thread has unfortunately taken a course that is completely off topic. Please visit the original post on page 1 before commenting any further, staying on the original topic. Do not be surprised if some of the previous posts are edited, removed or altered to reflect a cordial conversation.

The main thing is to get back on topic. Thank you in advance.

Tom

 

[Andre Marc]

Caesar

You point is dead on.

I agree.

Andre is just jealous of Valin. Valin is indeed "king" of the merry go round. As Mel Brooks said "ah it's nice to be king"

Yup. Me jealous of a a 65 year old guy with a wig who can't afford to buy the gear he reviews...Um yeh.....,

As a matter of fact, Jon Valin is an excellent writer who I admire for his skill. He is NOT the king, but the King Maker, which gets on some
readers nerves. But that is how you sell magazines, sorry.

 

[Priaptor]

Yup. Me jealous of a a 65 year old guy with a wig who can't afford to buy the gear he reviews...Um yeh.....,

As a matter of fact, Jon Valin is an excellent writer who I admire for his skill. He is NOT the king, but the King Maker, which gets on some
readers nerves. But that is how you sell magazines, sorry.

So obvious how jealous you are of THE KING

And your qualifications? You don't wear a wig??

 

[Andre Marc]

So obvious how jealous you are of THE KING

And your qualifications? You don't wear a wig??

No wig. And again, JV is a fabulous writer. No jealousy here.

If am jealous of anyone it is someone like a Steve Hoffman or Doug Sax
who get to hear historic master tapes on a daily basis. There is no one in this hobby
I am jealous of.

 

[Priaptor]

No wig. And again, JV is a fabulous writer. No jealousy here.

If am jealous of anyone it is someone like a Steve Hoffman or Doug Sax
who get to hear historic master tapes on a daily basis. There is no one in this hobby
I am jealous of.

As much as I would like to argue with you I can't argue with that post

His wig is pretty absurd as well.

 

[Andre Marc]

As much as I would like to argue with you I can't argue with that post

His wig is pretty absurd as well.

Then we have common ground!!!

 

[Andre Marc]

As much as I would like to argue with you I can't argue with that post

His wig is pretty absurd as well.

I also noted that JV has been rather quiet lately online. I generally enjoy his blog posts.

 

[caesar]

Woah, let's hold on a minute.

First, it IS true that TAS showed Magico undue attention from the onset, I hardly think they "made" Magico. Alon Wolf did.
He has raised the bar in many areas of speaker design.

Secondly, Jeff Fritz at Soundstage has also been VERY enthusiastic about Magico, to put it mildly. And, Michael Fremer also put his
stamp of approval on the Q5.

...

You are, of course, correct Andre. But TAS/ Valin has turned Magico into a "crown jewel" of audio brands by constantly orgasming over it for 4-5 years whenever he blogged and reviewed any product in his room. The creation of this top of mind awareness is what I mean by "making" Magico. To his credit, Wolf also got other reviewers involved to make sure Magico always has visibility. But where would he be without Valin? Without TAS, Magico would be stuck in the crowd, just another one of many niche speaker products appealing to the audiophile interested in "accurate" sound.

 

[caesar]

Yup. Me jealous of a a 65 year old guy with a wig who can't afford to buy the gear he reviews...Um yeh.....,

As a matter of fact, Jon Valin is an excellent writer who I admire for his skill. He is NOT the king, but the King Maker, which gets on some
readers nerves. But that is how you sell magazines, sorry.

Fabulous post! Thanks, for the great belly laugh, Andre!!!

On a serious note, Valin may be a pretty good writer. But he has several major faults. First, he oversells. Kings and king-makers don't sound like used car salesmen. My great grandfather was a shoe maker who sold shoes on the streets to support 12 kids. I know he had more dignity peddling his shoes than Valin peddling Magico or Rida-hoe.

Second, Valin needs to realize that it's not about him, but about his reader looking to make a major purchase decision of an experiential product. When writing about a Greek isles vacation, you need to write about the positives and negatives of being in the sun for days. Valin only sees it from his point of view and doesn't realize that there is opposite side to his story. He may like the sun, but not everyone is going to want to spend a whole summer in the sun. You mentioned Fremer reviewing Magico earlier, and I think it is a great example. His assessment was thorough and honest, and the speaker still won Stereophile product of the Year.

 

[caesar]

I also noted that JV has been rather quiet lately online. I generally enjoy his blog posts.

Fairly recently, he had his best blog post/ write-up in years after Greg Beron visited him with some master tapes and a tape machine.

 

[Andre Marc]

You are, of course, correct Andre. But TAS/ Valin has turned Magico into a "crown jewel" of audio brands by constantly orgasming over it for 4-5 years whenever he blogged and reviewed any product in his room. The creation of this top of mind awareness is what I mean by "making" Magico. To his credit, Wolf also got other reviewers involved to make sure Magico always has visibility. But where would he be without Valin? Without TAS, Magico would be stuck in the crowd, just another one of many niche speaker products appealing to the audiophile interested in "accurate" sound.

Hey Caesar my friend:

You won't find me arguing against Valin AND Harley's orgasmic praise for Magico in every review, blog entry, and show report. I know
that is the case. But it might be giving Valin too much credit to say he "made" them.

I can tell you that the reason Magico has continued to support TAS with ads and scoops etc is that when Alon Wolf sent out an invitation
at the first CES Magico exhibited at, TAS was the only established outlet that appeared to see the new products. Alon Wolf understandably
has probably been rewarding them for taking a chance so to speak on the brand. If Magico had flopped, the credibility of TAS would have
been destroyed. There is no doubt in my mind Wolf has held a grudge against the rest of the audio press for ignoring him. But hey, his vision
has proved successful. Like them or not, Magico has gone from nothing to a global brand in 6 years.

 

[DaveyF]

I don't know about you guys, BUT when I read a MAJOR RAVE UP of a piece of gear, then I tend to have VERY HIGH expectations for that piece of gear. As such, I hold it to a higher level than I might have otherwise. Almost invariably said piece of gear falls flat and cannot live up to the hype. That usually doesn't sit well with me and I quickly discount it in favor of the competition.

 

[Andre Marc]

Fabulous post! Thanks, for the great belly laugh, Andre!!!

On a serious note, Valin may be a pretty good writer. But he has several major faults. First, he oversells. Kings and king-makers don't sound like used car salesmen. My great grandfather was a shoe maker who sold shoes on the streets to support 12 kids. I know he had more dignity peddling his shoes than Valin peddling Magico or Rida-hoe.

Second, Valin needs to realize that it's not about him, but about his reader looking to make a major purchase decision of an experiential product. When writing about a Greek isles vacation, you need to write about the positives and negatives of being in the sun for days. Valin only sees it from his point of view and doesn't realize that there is opposite side to his story. He may like the sun, but not everyone is going to want to spend a whole summer in the sun. You mentioned Fremer reviewing Magico earlier, and I think it is a great example. His assessment was thorough and honest, and the speaker still won Stereophile product of the Year.

My self and Jeff Dorgay are diametrically opposed to the Reviewer Centeric approach, and Reviewer as Pontificator approach.

I know well that Valin and Harley like to be bombastic, this approach hooks a lot of fish.

 

[Andre Marc]

Fairly recently, he had his best blog post/ write-up in years after Greg Beron visited him with some master tapes and a tape machine.

Oh yes, that was about six weeks ago. The last thing I read of his was his CES show reports.