I want your opinion on this statement

[Robh3606]

PS-Thanks for the mention of Lindsey Stirling. See, never heard of her. Just listened to a couple. Liked "Roundtable Revival" quite a lot as well as "Beyond the Veil."

Your welcome If you like her check out Pentatonix, PTX who she has also performed with. Acapella group no instruments really unique sound. Lindsey is on tour and is really something to see live. Have also seen PTX live and they are well worth seeing although their tour may be over.


Rob

 

[infinitely baffled]

 

[marty]

...what we have now is closer to true meritocracy. you no longer have gatekeepers like record companies or radio stations exerting such influence...

Unfortunately, this is not quite true. I have a nephew who is trying to make it in the music business and was recently signed by an indy label. From what he tells me, it sure seems like things aren't very different now than they ever were in the sense that its all about radio play and that takes serious money. Record companies are indeed the gatekeepers because as its always been, payola is the name of the game. In order to get the attention of any label, you first have to produce your own CDs. This is relatively common today. However, getting to the next step is hard. While many kids can get their family/friends to help with making a CD or two, its the big money required for airplay that still makes the key difference in getting wide exposure and popularity. The problem of course is that labels are not able to do this as widely as they used to because there is no real income from the current model of streaming. As the head of Naxos said recently in a thoughtful interview in Gramophone, the record industry will struggle very hard to survive for the next ten years until a sustainable model for revenue can be found that supports the business case for recording and producing new artists. In the interim, it is indeed the wild west out there. As a consequence of diminishing new iconic artists, the most common thing that we are now seeing is that every iconic old band or singer who isn't hospitalized in a geriatric unit somewhere, is on tour because that's where real money can be made. Its actually ironic that so many of these bands have established their popularity by radio play in the days of classic rock, but now must rely on the only mechanism that made money for them then as it can now- the concert tour. How many iconic artists will be able to fill large venues and stadiums 20 years from now? If the current crop of "iconic" artists is any hint, the answer is, not many. Of course, in 20 years, I'm sure some smooth promoter will figure out a way to fill a concert hall with the likes of whatever is left of the Grateful Dead, just so their aging fans can watch them make inappropriate noises from their failing body parts.

 

[infinitely baffled]

hi Marty,
is the festival scene not strong in the US?
i know that in the UK this is how many bands gain exposure and a following. there is a broad enough spectrum of music being played and, as a scene, it is much less conservative than radio, more enthusiastic for new music.

and even there the advent of internet radio has massively increased the variety of music that can be heard...all those thousands of radio stations requiring 24 hour output, the maths alone provides evidence that you can find a niche to begin your climb. when i grew up it was the same few songs, over and over again, combined with wretched radio 'personalities'. ugh. so glad to be rid of all of that conformity and just hear the music i want, without regular interruptions for adverts and someone else's view of what's news

then you have the rise of compilations....this means that artists can earn money from individual tracks to pay for more studio time or equipment. within electronic dance music (edm) this is an established business model, perhaps your nephew could pursue this?

personally i also believe there's a generational issue; the creative baton has been handed on and leaves the baby boomer generation as the establishment, with once-rebellious rock music now the soundtrack to power and conservatism. the bright young things of today work in a different style, to a different rhythm

 

[taters]

Unfortunately, this is not quite true. I have a nephew who is trying to make it in the music business and was recently signed by an indy label. From what he tells me, it sure seems like things aren't very different now than they ever were in the sense that its all about radio play and that takes serious money. Record companies are indeed the gatekeepers because as its always been, payola is the name of the game. In order to get the attention of any label, you first have to produce your own CDs. This is relatively common today. However, getting to the next step is hard. While many kids can get their family/friends to help with making a CD or two, its the big money required for airplay that still makes the key difference in getting wide exposure and popularity. The problem of course is that labels are not able to do this as widely as they used to because there is no real income from the current model of streaming. As the head of Naxos said recently in a thoughtful interview in Gramophone, the record industry will struggle very hard to survive for the next ten years until a sustainable model for revenue can be found that supports the business case for recording and producing new artists. In the interim, it is indeed the wild west out there. As a consequence of diminishing new iconic artists, the most common thing that we are now seeing is that every iconic old band or singer who isn't hospitalized in a geriatric unit somewhere, is on tour because that's where real money can be made. Its actually ironic that so many of these bands have established their popularity by radio play in the days of classic rock, but now must rely on the only mechanism that made money for them then as it can now- the concert tour. How many iconic artists will be able to fill large venues and stadiums 20 years from now? If the current crop of "iconic" artists is any hint, the answer is, not many. Of course, in 20 years, I'm sure some smooth promoter will figure out a way to fill a concert hall with the likes of whatever is left of the Grateful Dead, just so their aging fans can watch them make inappropriate noises from their failing body parts.

You make some greats points about the old bands touring. Like you said they got established 30 or 40 years ago on the radio. I think that is the formula Gene Simmons was talking about. Like he said you need structure to become an iconic band. These isn't that structure in place nowadays. So in the future you are not going to see the older bands touring like you do now.

 

[Garth]

...

 

[Ron Resnick]

I agree, Gary!

My father worked in the record business for his entire career, on the business side of the business. He began his career at CBS Records. When Clive Davis started Arista my father went to work at Arista. My father also worked at Atlantic Records. (I got to go to a lot of concerts growing up.)

I know my father would say that downloading turned the record companies into unattractive businesses from a financial point of view. But so what? Businesses have to evolve if they do not want to perish.

On the iconic point, I have always thought that Gene Simmons appears to be an egomaniac. Post-Kiss there are many successful groups and singers (e.g., Taylor Swift) who already are iconic, or who will be considered to be iconic in the future.

 

[esldude]

hi Marty,
is the festival scene not strong in the US?
i know that in the UK this is how many bands gain exposure and a following. there is a broad enough spectrum of music being played and, as a scene, it is much less conservative than radio, more enthusiastic for new music.

and even there the advent of internet radio has massively increased the variety of music that can be heard...all those thousands of radio stations requiring 24 hour output, the maths alone provides evidence that you can find a niche to begin your climb. when i grew up it was the same few songs, over and over again, combined with wretched radio 'personalities'. ugh. so glad to be rid of all of that conformity and just hear the music i want, without regular interruptions for adverts and someone else's view of what's news

then you have the rise of compilations....this means that artists can earn money from individual tracks to pay for more studio time or equipment. within electronic dance music (edm) this is an established business model, perhaps your nephew could pursue this?

personally i also believe there's a generational issue; the creative baton has been handed on and leaves the baby boomer generation as the establishment, with once-rebellious rock music now the soundtrack to power and conservatism. the bright young things of today work in a different style, to a different rhythm

I think it is stronger in the UK. I think it has grown considerably in the past 5 years USA. Lots more festivals many part of other events though increasingly just music festivals. There seem to be more of them, and they are reasonably well attended. It does seem the right place to get a start, develop a following and expand careers. I do think it is in response to what you are describing. It also is more doable with people learning of someone on youtube and such. You might not have a million fans, but you have enough when part of a festival the festival gets good attendance and though many may come for mainly one or two acts, they hear others they come to like as well.