Incredible Stillpoints
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Stillpoints Ultra Products Technology Pocket Function
Note that the technology pocket is designed to be "loose" until the pocked is "loaded" by the weight of the component or, in the case of sitting on top of a component, by the weight of the Ultra SS, Ultra 5, or Ultra LPI itself. It's always easier to level 3 since 3 points define a plane. Using 4 provides more isolation technology but introduces leveling and equal loading issues that if not addressed correctly often result in less than optimum performance.
Note that the technology pocket is designed to be "loose" until the pocked is "loaded" by the weight of the component or, in the case of sitting on top of a component, by the weight of the Ultra SS, Ultra 5, or Ultra LPI itself. It's always easier to level 3 since 3 points define a plane. Using 4 provides more isolation technology but introduces leveling and equal loading issues that if not addressed correctly often result in less than optimum performance.
Stillpoints and Speaker Placement
In our experience after installing Stillpoints under speakers, it is unusual NOT to have to move the speakers to recover tonal balance, etc.
In our experience after installing Stillpoints under speakers, it is unusual NOT to have to move the speakers to recover tonal balance, etc.
John, It's wonderful to have your input in these forums. Thank you for joining in.
From your statement above, I infer that Stillpoints under speakers alter tonal balance. Is this because they effect certain frequencies that now interact with the room differently? I had been under the impression that the Stillpoints basically increase detail and the overall sense of clarity thus improving soundstage and imaging information as well as transparency by lessoning the negative effects of vibrations interfering with the signal or the motion of speaker drivers. Could you please clarify your statement? Thanks.
John, What is the idea behind the bevel? Does it effect the direction or path of draining vibrations? I have noticed in my trials that the sound is better when the beveled side is facing up, or against the bottoms of my amplifiers, but prior to this threaded insert on the beveled half, when used under speakers, the only option was to have the beveled side facing down, i.e. touching the floor.
We don't have any test data to support or refute that Stillpoints products universally affect particular frequencies versus other frequencies or universally affect tonal balance in the same way in every system. And, given the inherent diverse character from system to system based on any number of variables, I believe it would be impossible to prescribe a universal result. That said, my experience is that in more situations than not, when your ears tell you the foundation of the presentation is correct, coherency, transparency, staging, all those qualities that fool us in a good way are along for the ride. Speaker placement is obviously a huge contributor and would likely require tweaking.
Isolating speakers from the room via a Stillpoints product results in a different interaction between the speaker and the room. Doing so also results in being able to "hear" more accurately the true character of upstream components. Given the critical nature of speaker setup and the resolving acumen of systems of this ilk, it is likely that any changes, especially tonal shifts, will result in easily perceived differences in the overall presentation of the system. Moving the speakers may result in recovering to the "sound" of the system we like and are used to hearing, but may also flesh out a character of an upstream component that is now revealed as unsatisfactory and, perhaps, hard to pin down.
Thanks!
Hi Peter, meant to thank you in my previous post. I am very happy to be a part of this great community and wish I had more time to devote addressing questions, concerns, and observations. Much more rewarding than angsting over taxes.
Hi Peter, meant to thank you in my previous post. I am very happy to be a part of this great community and wish I had more time to devote addressing questions, concerns, and observations. Much more rewarding than angsting over taxes.
Stillpoints Ultra 5 and Origin of the Bevel
The bevel was designed into the Ultra 5 to help facilitate moving large, heavy components across carpeted surfaces especially after the component has settled into the carpet/pad. The same is true of the bevel of the Hard Hat of the Ultra SS. AFAIK, the bevel does not have an effect on controlling vibration. One of our mantras is to place the technology pockets as close to the component being isolated as is possible. Given the tech pockets of the Ultra 5 reside in the beveled half, it is not unreasonable to experience better performance in the configuration you describe. But true to form when you think you can apply a universal axiom, along comes a situation that flies in its face. So... it's always best to experiment to learn what works best.
This is another reason for wanting to have a tap on that half of the U5. Now a user can attach a U5 with the bevel up. We haven't started making adapters for that purpose, as the origin of that second tap is for using a spike on carpeted surfaces, but I can imagine demand will drive us to making 1/2-20 to "whatever size" adapters as we do now for 1/4-20 to "whatever size" adapters. Having that option will provide the maximum of installation options for the Ultra 5 product.
The bevel was designed into the Ultra 5 to help facilitate moving large, heavy components across carpeted surfaces especially after the component has settled into the carpet/pad. The same is true of the bevel of the Hard Hat of the Ultra SS. AFAIK, the bevel does not have an effect on controlling vibration. One of our mantras is to place the technology pockets as close to the component being isolated as is possible. Given the tech pockets of the Ultra 5 reside in the beveled half, it is not unreasonable to experience better performance in the configuration you describe. But true to form when you think you can apply a universal axiom, along comes a situation that flies in its face. So... it's always best to experiment to learn what works best.
This is another reason for wanting to have a tap on that half of the U5. Now a user can attach a U5 with the bevel up. We haven't started making adapters for that purpose, as the origin of that second tap is for using a spike on carpeted surfaces, but I can imagine demand will drive us to making 1/2-20 to "whatever size" adapters as we do now for 1/4-20 to "whatever size" adapters. Having that option will provide the maximum of installation options for the Ultra 5 product.
I heard the Shun Mook Giant Diamond Resonators, which you place under components like supporters. If you place them towards the outer edge of the component, they make the soundstage wide and bloomier. Bring them in, it becomes tight and focused. If you move the triangle forward, soundstage moves forward, and vice versa. Take them off and muddiness is instantly noticeable.
I sold off my stillpoints immediately after listening to these resonators, and bought them. Heard them in my system and the dealer's.
I sold off my stillpoints immediately after listening to these resonators, and bought them. Heard them in my system and the dealer's.
Very interesting. If you had a chance to reverse their orientation, did you notice if the soundstage turned upside down, or did the left and right channels reverse themselves? I read somewhere that owners of the Shun Mooks put them in the freezer at night during the Summer months so that the next day the listening room will sound cooler.
Peter, I've met our friend Bonzo, and he's pretty down to earth. Personally I went a little goggle-eyed when he described his experiences w/the Shun Mooks. But then again, my non-audiofool friends think i should be committed for spending £000's on Entreq grounding. But I share you're, ahem, health skepticism.
Spirit, I'm sure you're right. I was just writing in jest as I assumed gonzo was. I thought his claim that their positioning corresponds to what actually happens to the soundstage was a bit incredible, so I expanded the analogy. I hope he got my meaning and I'm sorry for the confusion.
I tend to be skeptical about these kinds of products, especially after my recent experience with the Ultra 5 under my speakers, but my recent trials have opened my ears to the possibility of real sonic gains. I'm planning to now deflate my Vibraplanes, listen some more, and then remove them from under my amps to confirm what I am hearing. A buddy came over yesterday and also claims to have heard the positive results of the Stillpoints under my amps.
Stillpoints Use Guidelines
During our testing, we never mix brands of isolation in the system at the same time so we can judge changes one at a time. I believe it's good advice to not only deflate the Vibraplanes but take them, and any other isolation devices, out all together. It's the only way to know what the Stillpoints products contribute on their own, good or bad. Once a reference point is established, tweak from there.
To that end, someone contributed in one of these many threads that they have now placed a HRS product (I believe) on top of a Stillpoints product and recovered to the desired tonal palette.
During our testing, we never mix brands of isolation in the system at the same time so we can judge changes one at a time. I believe it's good advice to not only deflate the Vibraplanes but take them, and any other isolation devices, out all together. It's the only way to know what the Stillpoints products contribute on their own, good or bad. Once a reference point is established, tweak from there.
To that end, someone contributed in one of these many threads that they have now placed a HRS product (I believe) on top of a Stillpoints product and recovered to the desired tonal palette.
John, I appreciate your advice, but the Vibraplanes weigh 150 lbs each in addition to a 136 lbs steel ballast plate on each. I am not planning to move them for this trial. It is difficult enough just to place them under and then remove them a couple of times under my 150 lbs Pass Labs mono blocks. My aching back can't take much more of this. I suppose I could move the amps over to the side and put the Stillpoints directly on the 200 year old floor boards of my old house, but they are uneven and a bit loose. That is why I have such massive supports under my amps. I have found even when deflated, the Vibraplanes offer a more solid surface on which to place the amps. With a total weight of 286 lbs per side, the steel is more solid and stable than the loose floor boards. My cables will also not accommodate much movement of the amps over to the side.
I think that once the Vibraplanes are fully deflated and supported on wood risers so that there is no weight on any Vibraplane footer, they will act just like extremely heavy, immobile, solid steel amp stands providing a flat, level, solid surface on which to place the Stillpoints. The Vibraplanes should not offer any additional isolation than a very heavy steel rack shelf would offer. And they will offer a formidable mass or sink into which any vibrations leaving the Ultra 5 can travel.
From everything that I have read about the Stillpoints, vibration from the component is drawn into them and then converted into heat in the technology pockets. I guess it then dissipates. Perhaps placing the Stillpoints on steel vs wood vs granite vs concrete vs glass would effect their performance, but so would placing them on most solid rack shelving.
Your suggestion raises an interesting question. How can one separate the performance of the Stillpoints from that of the supporting structure or rack shelf on which the component is placed. You are not suggesting that when testing Stillpoint products, they should be placed directly on the floor, or are you?
Hi Peter - thanks for clarifying your dilemma. Our testing most always is done directly on the existing flooring. But yes, there have been circumstances in some systems, at shows, etc, wherein use of a more stable "platform" has been needed to properly level or support the component.
Separating the performance is a quandary I don't think we can solve since we all have to use what we have on which to place our stuff. No, I am definitely not suggesting that testing should be done on the floor. I was proposing that perhaps even deflated the VP might have some influence and it could be instructive to listen with and without the VP in its deflated state to learn which sounds best and also to learn the contribution of the deflated VP. In your situation, it seems you will always use something to avoid the issue with the floor so it's fair to use whatever that "something" is to do the testing.
I have completed my trials with the Stillpoint Ultra 5s. I borrowed six units from an audio friend and placed three under each of my Pass Labs XA160.5 amplifiers. I oriented them with the beveled side up toward the bottom of the amps and the flat sides on my preloaded Vibraplane isolation platforms.
I’ve had them in my system for just over a week. The first time I heard them under my amps, I had them oriented the other way around and two toward the front near the transformer, and one near the back of each amp. My friend and I listened to four or five tracks with a variety of music. The results were mixed. My friend preferred the sound with the Stillpoints in place, but only slightly and I heard a little more clarity but also what I thought was a hardness to certain frequencies. We then removed them and listened again, and frankly, I was not sure if I preferred the system with or without them in place. He suggested that I keep them for a while and experiment some more.
I’m glad I took his advice. The next night, I put them back under my amps, but this time I reoriented them with the beveled side up and with two units towards the outside of each amp and one unit on the inside of each amp relative to the center of the room. This is because the amps are very heavy and space was tight on either side of my fireplace.
I also had to deflate the Vibraplanes as to not damage them with the shifting weight. Well, with this orientation, the sound was very different. I noticed an immediate improvement in overall clarity, detail and special information. I listened to a variety of music from small-scale jazz, to large symphonic music to solo drum, piano and voice. In every instance, the sound was better.
I then decided to deflate the Vibraplanes to try to isolate the contribution of the Stillpoints. The sound deteriorated. It became less clear, more congealed, less focused and more two dimensional. Bass also became slower, less extended and defined. This is consistent with what I noticed two years ago when I added the Vibraplanes to the system.
Someone suggested that I try the Stillpoints under one amp only and switch between channels while listening to a mono recording. I did that and frankly, with turning my head to face one speaker and then the next, it was a bit difficult to judge the sound. I heard very little if any difference, but then the sound was so different from having both speakers on with a center image, the whole experience was strange and unfamiliar. I suppose I could have moved the speakers to the center of the room and placed them right next to each other, and gotten a different result, but I was not willing to make the effort. I was also not willing to remove the Vibraplanes with their steel ballast plates and my amplifiers, a total of 420 lbs per channel, just to try the amps on the Stillpoints resting directly on the 200 year old uneven wooden floor boards.
The deflated Vibraplanes provided a very stable and solid platform or amp stand on which to try the Stillpoints. With the Vibraplanes deflated, the Stillpoints were an improvement over the stock rubber footers, but when I inflated the Vibraplanes the improvements reached another level. I understand that combining isolation devices may result in a compromised solution, but I found that the combination sounded better than either one did alone.
The experiments were fairly comprehensive and involved many combinations and types of music over eight days of listening. This is what I think is happening: the Vibraplanes are isolating the amps from floor borne and structural vibrations coming up from the house, the foundation and the suspended floor when it is excited by loud music. With the 136 lb steel ballast plates on top of the 150 lb Vibraplanes, these platforms offer a virtually vibration free surface on which to place the equipment.
Furthermore, the Stillpoint Ultra 5s seem to be drawing vibrational energy out of and down from the amplifiers. This energy is converted into head and dissipated. The result of this drainage and the lack of structural vibrations entering into the amps is an audio signal which is less corrupted by vibrations. The signal is cleaner.
The sonic result in my system is an increase in overall clarity and detail, a slightly more extended and articulate bass, improved soundstage information with a slight increase in depth and width. There is also more air and space around individual instruments which allows me to hear deeper into the recording.
Yesterday, I listened again to, and did a direct comparison between, the Pass XA160.5 and XA160.8 amplifiers at another friend’s house. I had heard these a few weeks ago, but there were other changes to the system, including Stillpoints under his Wilson Alexias. Interestingly, the differences between the two amplifiers can be summarized more or less as the difference in sound in my system with and with out the Stillpoints under my amps. Everything is clearer and more defined with the XA.8 amp compared to the XA.5 amp. I don’t think the difference is as pronounced with the Stillpoints in place as it is with the amplifiers, but it is significant, nonetheless.
I had tried these Ultra 5s under my Magico Mini 2 speakers about a month ago, but for various reasons, I did not like the result. My experience with them under my amplifiers is completely different. I can think of nothing they do that is detrimental and their addition clearly improves, in some significant ways, the overall sound of my system. I find them to be a very interesting product which can, in certain circumstances, really improve the sound of one’s system.
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