I'd bet that for the majority of systems the two methods will result in nearly identical placement. Look at each method step-by-step and I think you'll see what I mean. The two methods start at different places but subsequent steps tend to bring them together (not really surprising when you think about it).
Incredible Stillpoints
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Thanks for the feedback.
If you get a chance try some Synergistic Research MiGs under your amps. I heard them under some XA200.5s and the bass was very deep and tight.
Hate to ask this again, but did your WA dealer ever do the WASP?
Was just re-reading this one...if the cabinet is level, that could still (theoretically) still be with weight largely on 3 of the 4 feet, no? Just trying to think outloud because your description makes me feel like there is some kind of loose vibration thing going on which is the opposite of more than a few direct experiences with putting Ultra 5s under a Wilson speaker. Most typically, extra bass-related cabinet resonances decrease substantially, leaving a much tighter bass snap. You've got the opposite if I am reading correctly.
iSeismometer App
Here is a free iphone app which may be helpful in seeing how much vibration before and after you use the Stillpoints!!
Stump
http://www.iseismometer.com/
Here is a free iphone app which may be helpful in seeing how much vibration before and after you use the Stillpoints!!
Stump
http://www.iseismometer.com/
I have been playing around with 4 of the new Stillpoints panels. I had originally decided not to treat the living room since they tend to be ugly. With these panels, we placed them behind the X1s and Velodyne so you don't really see them (too much), plus 1 in front of the flatscreen when the system is on.
Truly remarkable, and says a lot about what many already know...well-treated room is a huge improvement. Still way on the short end of the learning curve here. But a good first start for sure. No change in tonality, loss since I am told these are not absorbers. In fact, not sure how they work...but they work very well so far.
Truly remarkable, and says a lot about what many already know...well-treated room is a huge improvement. Still way on the short end of the learning curve here. But a good first start for sure. No change in tonality, loss since I am told these are not absorbers. In fact, not sure how they work...but they work very well so far.
No. After 5 months of waiting, I complained to Wilson via email. They never responded to me, but forwarded my email to my dealer, who got very pissed off with me and proceeded to tell me that he was a busy man and I wasn't the most important thing to him.
End of a relationship that was a bit rocky to begin with and without any support from Wilson (who will only deal with dealers, not the end user) I am on my own.
I realize it's early, but if they didn't change tonality, what did they change/improve? Was it immediately audible or more subtle?
I am sure Paragon will help you out with Wilson should you need any service. Larry Marcus is a stand up guy.
I find this inexcusable for such an expensive speaker and it makes me question how well the company really investigates its dealers.
Agree 100%. I should have purchased from him to begin with. My bad.
They basically removed resonances coming off the back walls. As you and I have both noted, Wilsons are often placed in the corners...and reflections in my room really flattened out the soundstage. Just placing them behind on the floor...we have not adjusted for height (yet)...already a lot of reflection-type sound has disappeared so that the original signal comes thru clearer and MORE CONCENTRATED...same for behind sub and also for in front of flatscreen.
I used to compare my audition of Arrakis in Hong Kong as making my X1s feel like Sashas to the XLF...now its more like Alexia vs Maxx3 which frankly is super close and in some rooms possibly nearly identical. I was quite shocked and totally unprepared...then again, I know that going from 0 treatment to 'good treatment' (still far from SOTA treated room) will make a big improvement. And it has.
Again, the signal gets super concentrated so that it is very very easy on your ears with detail, power...more information but easier on your ears at the same time. You have noted vibration under your amps may have weakened the bass...which tightened up with Ultra 5s...imagine that across the full signal spectrum because wall reflections are decreased (without being dampened to dead) and thus the signal concentrates. That's the best description I can come up with for now.
And yes, immediately audible. The best comp was I purposely started with Seal Greatest Hits...sometimes can feel a little like a compressed MP3 file. By the time we were done, we both sat back and realized why Seal is Seal...the power in his voice, the subtle adjustments in his throat as he belts...and it DEFINITELY did not feel compressed or MP3-like anymore...not a Norah Jones album...but in truth, compared with Norah Jones recording...I did not feel the loss at all. Just enjoyed the music. Quite a nice turn of events this weekend.
Big enough improvement, its akin to getting a big speaker upgrade...but for a whole lot less!
Again, for those with experience in well-treated rooms, I suspect what I am writing wont surprise them...particularly those who voted recently on WBF that the biggest factors of distortion are: Room, Speakers, Source, Amp. Now I am starting to get that from first hand experience.
That sounds like very positive progress, Lloyd. Keep us updated on further refinements. I would add that you should not forget the benefit of proper placement of the speakers and the listener in the room when you list the order of various factors which contribute to overall distortion in a system or to one's enjoyment of a system. The room and speakers are certainly important factors, but I have found that their relationship to each other is often of equal or more importance, as is that of the listener to the room and speakers.
You are probably right about this, but he will not send someone out to properly set up Wilson speakers that were bought from another dealer. That "WASP" service from the dealer is supposed to be included in the purchase price of a pair of Wilson speakers. All Wilson dealers are supposed to be properly trained to provide this service. And it must be disappointing in the very least to not get back up support from Wilson directly towards this service when a dealer does not provide the service for which he was paid.
I now wonder if Madfloyd would have a different experience with his Stillpoints if his Alexias had originally been properly set up. There have been so many positive reports about Stillpoints under Wilson speakers that I wonder if results vary depending on the proper speaker interface with the room.
Thank you...fortunately, the system was originally setup by someone who Wilson told me they considered to be among a handful of the top experts to setup their speakers. Does it need adjustment due to the Stillpoints panels? Possibly...but the improvements are so good I am quite happy at this early stage.
The alexia should not be that difficult to set up by the owner following the manual carefully. I can't believe the original dealer did not set them up in the first place. The Alexandria is a much more complicated speaker to set up and voice properly... 3 separate speaker modules per chnannel vs 1 for alexia. The alexia are much easier to move around too...a single person operation. At 650 lb per channel, the X-2 is a two man deal to move around unless you are already on the caster wheels. If Ian follows the propagation delay tables in the manual, he should be able to fine tune their position and sound without the help of a dealer, IMO.
That may well be the case, but the service was paid for and Ian should expect satisfaction. I bought my speakers used and had no such expectation. I set them up fairly well over about three months of listening and experimentation, but I later hired Jim Smith to do it properly, and results did indeed improve. Great set up is something that I have found can take years of experience to do well. I know very few hobbyists who can do it as well as trained professionals. A training course such as the one Wilson provides it dealers should shorten the learning curve substantially and whether or not the Alexia is easier to set up than the X-2 is really not so important in this case. For $50K, the Alexia purchase price includes this set up procedure, regardless of how long it takes, and new owners and entitled to the service.
I got one shot with my dealer. The two techs had to be flown out with two hotel nights. It would be unreasonable for me to expect them to come out again on their own dime. If I had a more local dealer like in Ian's case, I would expect at least another visit by the dealer. Dealer accommodation mileage may vary, unfortunately. I have since optimized my speakers over the past two years by myself and they sound better than the original dealer install for what that is worth.
That's an interesting point Christian. When the dealer does the set-up, he or she ( are there any ladies who do this, I doubt it, LOL), will be setting up your speakers based on their taste in music and sound, which may or may NOT correspond to yours.
I have found that many dealer's do listen for the same things as I do, BUT at least as many do not...which leads me to question a little how valuable the initial dealer set-up of your speaker system could be. Personally, I would much rather do this myself as I know exactly what sound I am trying to achieve....and more importantly perhaps, where the limitations of my room and ancillary equipment lie. Not so sure a dealer would be as, shall we say, "accurate" on that point.
Although, I do recognize that for many the "initial" set-up is important and perhaps for them that is all that is needed. Seems like you have taken that "initial" set-up and improved on it.
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