Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?

[jmimac351]

What are we searching for?

Ghosts?... I'm always game for a smokin' deal on sweet 2-way SpEaKeRs.

I am certainly not one to judge people by the ghosts they hang out with.

The Paranormal: How to talk to the dead. My experience and evidence with EVP, Spirit Boxes, Ghost Boxes and Spirit communication | Steve Huff Hi-Fi and Photo

The Paranormal: How to talk to the dead. My experience and evidence with EVP, Spirit Boxes, Ghost Boxes, Spirit Photography and Spirit communication. THIS PAGE HAS NOW MOVED!CLICK HERE TO SEE IT AT MY NEW WEBSITE DEVOTED TO SPIRIT COMMUNICATION.

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[DaveC]

I’m a finance guy and think there’s very few similarities between buying a Ferrari and high end audio gear. Limited edition Ferraris usually appreciate in value (price) and high end audio gear usually depreciates quickly in value (price). I could continue but will merely conclude, IMO, it’s a bad comparison.

Cars mostly depreciate and are considered a poor investment a vast majority of the time. I've never heard anyone recommend buying cars as an investment.

If you want to buy cars that appreciate, you don't just walk into the Ferrari dealer and buy one. You first buy lower end Ferraris that will likely cost you a lot of money and once you buy enough regular cars you may get the chance to buy a real collectible car. Same with Porsche, good luck walking into a dealer and getting an allocation for a RS car, although Porsche is now making more of them these days so some may get lucky. By the time you can actually buy collectible cars brand new you're rich af and it hardly even matters anymore. Most people buy cars that depreciate.

Also, unless you don't actually drive said cars they cost a fortune. Want to take your new Porsche GT3 RS to the track? You'll spend thousands on one weekend just in routine costs. Buying a sports car is just the start of your financially questionable decision. OTOH, once you buy high end audio gear you can listen nearly for free for the rest of your life.

So yes... a lot of differences, but as someone into both cars and audio, there's also a lot of similarities. The modern luxury car is a way better comparison vs a collectible Ferrari or P-car. Besides having way more power than anyone ever needs to drive on the road, it offers few benefits over a commodity level car. Luxury cars used be massively better than a common car, these days it's all fluff, a thin veneer of luxury. Euro SUVs are a great example of this. The Lambo SUV at $250k shares the same chassis as a much more basic Audi for a fraction of the price and gets the owner what? Stupid useless amounts of power, ridiculously large wheels and some nice leather trim? Seems a lot like high end audio to me, often the industrial design of a modern piece of audio gear is over the top just like a gaudy Lambo SUV. And the value of both tanks as soon as you take delivery.

 

[thedudeabides]

Glib response, cute, but doesn’t enlighten.

Not intended to enlighten. In my view, just the basic truth.

Get personal. What is it about your music playback system that attracts you most?

The music.

What aspect(s) of how it looks

Fits on my window sill.

what it costs

Minimal. And "hi end" from a cost / performance ratio.

how it makes sound effects (it’s design)

Simpliciity. Functionality.

do you think makes you reach for your wallet most?

Don't anymore. Good thing also. Retired on a fixed income.

I am wanting to see if there is, like a red cape before a bull, something we all are drawn to.

Good luck. It's subjective. And a big wallet helps.

Our kryptonite.

Variable.

Why we each believe High End is worth it.

Hopefully to emotionally connect with the music. But you may also find that response to be glib, cute and unenlightning. If that's the case, my sincere apologies.

Best.

 

[Hornsolutions Swen]

In my opinion, the answer to this question is quite simple. Something is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. Are the prices of many high-end products justified in relation to other products? No, at least not if they're not also luxury products like wristwatches, jewelry, clothing, or expensive handbags. Compared to real estate or cars, the prices are certainly not justified. A record player for $350,000? For that price, you could also buy a Bentley Continental GT Speed or a GT3. But hobbies are hobbies, and as long as they bring joy, that's okay.

 

[Rensselaer]

Not intended to enlighten. In my view, just the basic truth.

The music.

Fits on my window sill.

Minimal. And "hi end" from a cost / performance ratio.

Simpliciity. Functionality.

Don't anymore. Good thing also. Retired on a fixed income.

Good luck. It's subjective. And a big wallet helps.

Variable.

Hopefully to emotionally connect with the music. But you may also find that response to be glib, cute and unenlightning. If that's the case, my sincere apologies.

Best.

What characteristic helps you connect emotionally with the music?

 

[thedudeabides]

What characteristic helps you connect emotionally with the music?

Wow. Tough one. Really difficult to put into words.

Two things come to mind.

First, I have to "own" the music. Perhaps very relatable to my personal life experience or an otherwise strong attachment to the music's melodic / verbal message or best, a combination of both. This will, of course, vary with each individual. Two examples in my orbit; one folk vocal and one classical. Leonard Cohen, If It Be Your Will, Leonard Cohen Live in London. Gorecki, Third Symphony, Second movement.

Secondly, the correct frame of mind (mental space) to receive and internalize the "message". Need to be relaxed and not stressed. Minimal distractions.

For me, reproduction quality and where I hear it are secondary and don't cause me to "disconnect". No doubt, having all the stars in alignment is best case / most emotional scenario. Both pieces of music can bring me to tears.

Would be an interesting thread. Thanks for asking.

Best. Gordon

 

[Pokey77]

Wow. Tough one. Really difficult to put into words.

Two things come to mind.

First, I have to "own" the music. Perhaps very relatable to my personal life experience or an otherwise strong attachment to the music's melodic / verbal message or best, a combination of both. This will, of course, vary with each individual. Two examples in my orbit; one vocal and one instrumental. Leonard Cohen, If It Be Your Will, Leonard Cohen Live in London. Gorecki, Third Symphony, Second movement.

Secondly, the correct frame of mind (mental space) to receive and internalize the "message". Need to be relaxed and not stressed. Minimal distractions.

For me, reproduction quality and where I hear it are secondary and don't cause me to "disconnect". No doubt, having all the stars in alignment is best case / most emotional scenario. Both pieces of music can bring me to tears.

Would be an interesting thread. Thanks for asking.

Best. Gordon

Thanks for sharing the Cohen song. Never heard it but certainly can relate.

 

[thedudeabides]

Investing is my game and I think comparing high end audio gear (which is almost certain to quickly depreciate in value) to high end cars and watches (true collectibles!) is very foolish. Your hobby is almost certain to cost you money, while their hobby may be very profitable.

Indeed, listening to music can take you to places you never knew existed. Not good if you are driving. I find the ROI comments regarding hi end gear to be useless, irrelevant and contradict the very core reason (for me) that one should buy this stuff. That being connecting to the music. People comparing hi end audio to other luxury markets. I don't get it.

 

[thedudeabides]

Thanks for sharing the Cohen song. Never heard it but certainly can relate.

Funny that I do because I am not into "organized" religion at all. As Leonard said in the song intro, the sublime Webb sisters and they are indeed that.

 

[Lagonda]

Wow. Tough one. Really difficult to put into words.

Two things come to mind.

First, I have to "own" the music. Perhaps very relatable to my personal life experience or an otherwise strong attachment to the music's melodic / verbal message or best, a combination of both. This will, of course, vary with each individual. Two examples in my orbit; one folk vocal and one classical. Leonard Cohen, If It Be Your Will, Leonard Cohen Live in London. Gorecki, Third Symphony, Second movement.

Secondly, the correct frame of mind (mental space) to receive and internalize the "message". Need to be relaxed and not stressed. Minimal distractions.

For me, reproduction quality and where I hear it are secondary and don't cause me to "disconnect". No doubt, having all the stars in alignment is best case / most emotional scenario. Both pieces of music can bring me to tears.

Would be an interesting thread. Thanks for asking.

Best. Gordon

Live in London is a nice sounding album, well recorded and great performance from everyone !

 

[thedudeabides]

Thanks for sharing the Cohen song. Never heard it but certainly can relate.

Pokey,

If you are a Leonard fan, the Live in London is amazing, musically and sonically. Even if you own others, still get this one.

 

[Rensselaer]

Wow. Tough one. Really difficult to put into words.

Two things come to mind.

First, I have to "own" the music. Perhaps very relatable to my personal life experience or an otherwise strong attachment to the music's melodic / verbal message or best, a combination of both. This will, of course, vary with each individual. Two examples in my orbit; one folk vocal and one classical. Leonard Cohen, If It Be Your Will, Leonard Cohen Live in London. Gorecki, Third Symphony, Second movement.

Secondly, the correct frame of mind (mental space) to receive and internalize the "message". Need to be relaxed and not stressed. Minimal distractions.

For me, reproduction quality and where I hear it are secondary and don't cause me to "disconnect". No doubt, having all the stars in alignment is best case / most emotional scenario. Both pieces of music can bring me to tears.

Would be an interesting thread. Thanks for asking.

Best. Gordon

Ok, we’re almost there.

I’m wondering if you compared two components in your home system, say interconnects for example, using your favourite Gorecki recording, played with what you had been using, then again with the other interconnects swapped in.

Your home alone, nice evening, in the right mood. I grant that a different pair of interconnects will sound different, not necessarily better, however this swap increases your emotional response.

What trait (more “real”, less veiled, better sound stage, all or none, etc.) would it be in that different sound to your treasured recording that increases your emotional response? What characteristic is altered in a way that pumps up the emotion? Are you able to identify that?

 

[Hornsolutions Swen]

The reason why we feel emotionally more connected to certain songs lies in the natural human reaction to musical sounds that, in harmonious resonance, affect the limbic system - precisely where emotions are born.

This process is closely linked to psychoacoustics, which deals with the perception and processing of sound waves by the human brain. When we listen to music that evokes our emotions, the limbic system activates the release of neurotransmitters such as dopamine and endorphins, which create a feeling of well-being and satisfaction.

The connection between music and emotions is also dependent on personal experience and the context in which we listen to the music. Certain songs can be linked to memories or events from our past, which is why they emotionally affect us more.

Overall, it becomes clear that the emotional connection to music is a complex process that depends on a variety of factors, including psychoacoustics, personal experiences, and contexts.

Best Regards Swen

 

[Holmz]

The reason why we feel emotionally more connected to certain songs lies in the natural human reaction to musical sounds that, in harmonious resonance, affect the limbic system - precisely where emotions are born.

This process is closely linked to psychoacoustics, which deals with the perception and processing of sound waves by the human brain. When we listen to music that evokes our emotions, the limbic system activates the release of neurotransmitters such as dopamine and endorphins, which create a feeling of well-being and satisfaction.

The connection between music and emotions is also dependent on personal experience and the context in which we listen to the music. Certain songs can be linked to memories or events from our past, which is why they emotionally affect us more.

Overall, it becomes clear that the emotional connection to music is a complex process that depends on a variety of factors, including psychoacoustics, personal experiences, and contexts.

Best Regards Swen

I do not see cables listed in the emotional connection there @Hornsolutions Swen

I’m wondering if you compared two components in your home system, say interconnects for example, using your favourite Gorecki recording, played with what you had been using, then again with the other interconnects swapped in.

Your home alone, nice evening, in the right mood. I grant that a different pair of interconnects will sound different, not necessarily better, however this swap increases your emotional response.

What trait (more “real”, less veiled, better sound stage, all or none, etc.) would it be in that different sound to your treasured recording that increases your emotional response? What characteristic is altered in a way that pumps up the emotion? Are you able to identify that?

 

[Newton John]

Live in London is a nice sounding album, well recorded and great performance from everyone !

Was fortunate to be at the O2 about six rows from the stage for that concert. It was an amazing night.

 

[Rensselaer]

Was fortunate to be at the O2 about six rows from the stage for that concert. It was an amazing night.

I give up.

 

[PeterA]

What characteristic helps you connect emotionally with the music?

For me, it is how natural the presentation is. How easily the music flows forth. How little the system imposes itself. How much energy fills the room. Nothing that one reads in the typical review. I drop the needle and I hear music, not elements or bits and pieces of the sound.

 

[Hornsolutions Swen]

Sorry Holmz. The only kind of "cables" that evoke emotions are actually the neural connections between different brain regions, including the cerebral cortex, limbic system, and brainstem.
Just my 2C

 

[Rensselaer]

For me, it is how natural the presentation is. How easily the music flows forth. How little the system imposes itself. How much energy fills the room. Nothing that one reads in the typical review. I drop the needle and I hear music, not elements or bits and pieces of the sound.

I was going to reference your thread on Natural Sound as an example however I seem to recall many taking issue with the term so didn’t (why do people have to be difficult).

For me, anything that brings me irrefutably closer to the live recording while maintaining the tone of real acoustic instruments (including voice) will have me checking my bank accounts to see how I can arrange to pay for it. Those real tones and believable presentations are what cause the emotional response in me.

The recent audition of an Albedo Metamorphosis MkII interconnect between the Phono stage and SET amp did that (lucky choice of placement). Despite being brand new (no break in), I perceived that veils had been removed and the presence of tone/textures that sounded more real. The sound stage from my Altec’s (with Klugg horns atop) has never been as good as say Sonus Faber Lumina’s, but the image of each player tightened up, smaller more distinct in space.

I didn’t listen for these things (I had just put a record on to warm things up before listening) and was actually concentrating on what I was writing on my computer, when I just got this Gestalt of big improvement. I started playing different records to see if the improvement was ubiquitous as this interconnect was solid silver and I had read that they can work as a tone control, raising the frequency response in the treble. I checked to make sure it was an improvement, not just a difference.

But all my best recordings sounded much better across the frequency spectrum. It wasn’t a tone shift but an unveiling. I knew my system wasn’t playing up to its’ potential but didn’t know where the problem was. Placing the Albedo where I did was just luck. It was like I had taken my Ferrari to the shop because it hadn’t been performing and the mechanic holds up a device saying this is a governor, someone played a trick on you, your Ferrari will perform brilliantly for now on.

I had to buy a set.

 

[hopkins]

Corrected