Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?

[Robh3606]

Who say these DIY efforts are "first time around", it seems to me some of them actually spend limitlessly amounts of time and money getting it right.

Good point I have a pair of 4 way active analog speakers as part of my HT set-up. I have gone through multiple driver changes and upgrades over the almost 20 years I have had it. Last upgrade 18 months ago. It's a system that has always been set up so I could make driver swaps over time.

Unfortunately don't fit the limitless amount of money time I can give.

As technology has changed I have built DIY builds with newer drivers as they became available. DIY is not stagnant you are free to try new approaches as time goes on.

Rob

 

[Kingrex]

It seem like high end has less to do with parts and more to do with the owners attention to detail and setup.

 

[Rensselaer]

It seem like high end has less to do with parts and more to do with the owners attention to detail and setup.

Also parts, if you consider AudioNote / Kondo high end.

 

[Holmz]

It seem like high end has less to do with parts and more to do with the owners attention to detail and setup.

Unless one is on the sales end.
Then it seems like it is about system cost, and “progressing” the system.

And in their view, I would expect that one cannot have a high end system if it doesn’t meet some high $ threshold.

But I think we are in agreement.

 

[bonzo75]

It's all about perceived superiority, marketing sure helps that perception along. Brands like Wilson and Magico are excellent examples. 20% innovation, 80% hype !

I don’t blame the companies, it is the perceived superiority of those who think they are buying high end when all they get is boom boom sound and playing bluray multi channel through a surround sound home theater type system would sound much better

 

[bonzo75]

It seem like high end has less to do with parts and more to do with the owners attention to detail and setup.

High end has more to do with perception. And you have to stick to the forum where something is perceived high end. For example, the number of users on Tannoy users group on yahoo is much higher and they have a different perception of high end. There is also Lansing heritage forum where TAD horn drivers or rare RCA or western electric is considered high end. People who can afford to have M9 or WAMM in their kitchen system like the South Korean billionaire Cheung buy western electrics.

 

[tima]

High end has more to do with perception. And you have to stick to the forum where something is perceived high end. For example, the number of users on Tannoy users group on yahoo is much higher and they have a different perception of high end. There is also Lansing heritage forum where TAD horn drivers or rare RCA or western electric is considered high end. People who can afford to have M9 or WAMM in their kitchen system like the South Korean billionaire Cheung buy western electrics.

I agree about perception. Particulary the perception that happens when listening. The rest is about what words go in what box. Marketing/advertising is there and a layer of people see high-end audio is partly about marketing and the "high-end industry", but, imo, in the end it is about how a system sounds. Marketing will churn continually, good sound does not.

Don't forget JBL on Lansing Heritage.

 

[Robh3606]

There is also Lansing heritage forum where TAD horn drivers or rare RCA or western electric is considered high end.

You forgot the principle coverage of the site JBL and Altec. TAD and RCA are discussed but for the most part are unobtanium. The core of the site are vintage JBL and Altec with the more modern JBL systems. 90% of builds and system owner ship are JBL and Altec. The Paragon, Olympus, Hartsfield, Everest 1 and 2, K2, 9800, 9900, large format monitors like 4333, 4340/1/3/4, 4350/55,M2 are all considered High End. Then you have the URIE coax monitors and the larger Altec systems like 604's.

A lot of vintage in there many of which hold up well over time. An original Lansing Iconic would sure be nice!

Rob

 

[Robh3606]

It seem like high end has less to do with parts and more to do with the owners attention to detail and setup.

Both really. You purchase a new DAC and it's got the latest A/D and software as an example. With speakers drivers types are modified and updated over time none of them are direct replacements. Typically you have do crossover modifications to get them to work with rest of the drivers so detail and set-up are part of it.

Rob

 

[bonzo75]

You forgot the principle coverage of the site JBL and Altec. TAD and RCA are discussed but for the most part are unobtanium. The core of the site are vintage JBL and Altec with the more modern JBL systems. 90% of builds and system owner ship are JBL and Altec. The Paragon, Olympus, Hartsfield, Everest 1 and 2, K2, 9800, 9900, large format monitors like 4333, 4340/1/3/4, 4350/55,M2 are all considered High End. Then you have the URIE coax monitors and the larger Altec systems like 604's.

A lot of vintage in there many of which hold up well over time. An original Lansing Iconic would sure be nice!

Rob

I was referring to considered relatively premium in that group. TAD 4003 is considered premium in that though yes bulk will be altec and JBL. Personally what I have against JBL is almost all their horns require more power, as compared to altecs. I prefer speakers run on as low power as possible, but of course drivers have to match.

 

[Robh3606]

Personally what I have against JBL is almost all their horns require more power, as compared to altecs. I prefer speakers run on as low power as possible, but of course drivers have to match.

How so? The older compression drivers are all very similar WRT sensitivity and power.

Rob

 

[bonzo75]

How so? The older compression drivers are all very similar WRT sensitivity and power.

Rob

All Jbl speakers seem to be using higher power amps. If someone is running JBL on flea watts will be interesting to hear

 

[Atmasphere]

What speakers were used with this amplifier and how many samples were made? It sounds like quite an amplifier.

Sound Labs and JBL K2s are all I know of. There's only two ever made.

It seem like high end has less to do with parts and more to do with the owners attention to detail and setup.

Which is part of why I say high end is driven by intention; to see how well you can really do.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Which is part of why I say high end is driven by intention; to see how well you can really do.

yes, i agree.

 

[Rensselaer]

Then there is this from Mark Levenson:
https://www.headphonesty.com/2024/05/audiophile-icon-calls-mafia-tactics-luxury-audio/

 

[hopkins]

High prices are not tye privilege of the brands who spend millions on advertisong. I don't know how this sounds "for real" but the playlist is great:

It's funny to hear this stuff played on such a system. Anyone who thinks they need a 1.200.000$ system to enjoy this music needs to have their head examined! But if you can afford it, and can't think of a better way to use your money, then by all means, go for it. Is it worth it? Hopefully the person who buys it won't regret it.

 

[Holmz]

I don't know how this sounds "for real" but the playlist is great:

It's funny to hear this stuff played on such a system. Anyone who thinks they need a 1.200.000$ system to enjoy this music needs to have their head examined! But if you can afford it, and can't think of a better way to use your money, then by all means, go for it. Is it worth it? Hopefully the person who buys it won't regret it.

I am picturing a reel - but with the dealer looking like Hemingway and the customer on the end of the hook and reel like a fighting marlin.
And Ernest yelling, “We got a live one here.”

 

[hopkins]

I am picturing a reel - but with the dealer looking like Hemingway and the customer on the end of the hook and reel like a fighting marlin.
And Ernest yelling, “We got a live one here.”

View attachment 148112

If someone is buying it, we can assume that it's "worth it" for him/her. Is it better? There is no way to answer that question.

 

[hopkins]

The system is on loan from AudioNote:

Interesting video about this company.

 

[Wowfactor]

Hello, thank your for the membership. Interesting topic. Not a new one but good it hit the surface from time to time.

Let me share my recent experience but first introduce a bit of my background. Hifi & music has been my hobby for at least 45 years and I have worked in the trade for at least 40. Import/sales, latere production /export, part of twisting the trade cutting th food chain where the importer sold direct “only” offering a couple of demorooms and mail ordering. That was before internet. It was in the company who established Dali Loudspeakers and handled brands like NAD, Denon, Threshold Audio, JBL, Oracle Audio, Rega etc. Later i strat to work in the record industry, learned soundengineering and started to travel the world engineering band at venues and arenas. At the same time I also worked as a project manager and handled EU tenders for sound installations at arenas and theaters. I was responsible for the German high performance speaker brand d&b audiotechnik - today a worldwide supplier to artist many of us enjoy on our hifi rigs. Working with all 3 legs so to say in the hifi, proaudio and music business it is unavoidable experiencing what it takes to make the bits and pieces work and interact with the esssential - the music and the performance.

It is a known fact that incarnated “high end” audiophiles spend arms and legs, no matter if he can afford it or not, will accuse musicians, record labels, recording studios and dry hire companies for the devils advocate. And I am sure the opposite happens. Caught in the middle of this I find me less colored/biased selecting an audio system.

Today “High End” is for me is not worth the price when it comes to the soundquality and the musical engagement it returns. I have heard a few expensive systems that made smile and make a note. Alone the execution of the system was expensive: Large horns systems from Greece, low wattage from single ended tube amps made in Poland and music from discrete digital dacs made Romania, It was magic, stunnig and eyewatering. Heard it later in other occasions and meet people who have the same magic experience. It is seldom hearing expensive systems sounding so captivating and real - it was not “high End” but “Audio Fidelity” => this is today the essence for me and it is the stimula that makes me enjoy my hobby. System matching is the key.

The term “High End” has a negative ring among many and it do prevent potential buyers of high quality music systems to jump in - because the the persived price and the quality often is expressed like: “That is it? and how much did you say it will cost me?”.
A poster mention the “plug’n’play” factor. I see this here in Asia as “pay’n’play” = high price + branded product = look no further.

Believe me I have been around, worked with the best, bougt the ticket, poster and t-shirt, drove my bankmanager and family nuts. Systems exeeding USD 100k. Added the time I consumed in front of the system and calculating the price pr. minute converted in to concert tickets became a mental challenge………

Last year I was hit by a cybercrime attack. It set us back on all important parameters. I ended up having my cd-collection, my MHDT Labs Pagoda dac, cables from Zonotone in Japan and my Samsung dvd. Speaker was a set of home made/designet OB speakers with a 8” ful rnage fron SB Acoustics and 2 x 15” custom drives made in the Philippines. I also have a set of Epos Es 11 which now has its tweeter renovated.

About 1 month ago I digged out my OTL amp project from the closet. Fired it up and did remember to re-connect the volume pot. The DVD was connected and spun some cd’s. Interesting, engaging, workable but needed a certain volume to sound good. Clearly a mismatch between the dvd’s output impedance, voltage, amps volume pot and input impedance. I squeezed in the dac. I feed it optical (only option) Not that that this R2R dac with its well respected PCM 1704 IC’s and expensive selection of output buffer tubes sounded radical better but only different. The dacs rather high output impedance (35 ohm) can be the reason. I was defenately in need of a preamp. Need to compesate for the impdances and the volume differences and I need to switch between sources and if I could find one with a remote it would be dandy.

First the Topping Pre + Ext came to mind. I owned that in my home country. It is pretty neutral and I founded not coloring the sound or changing soundstage and depth. But it was over my budget….by accident I discovered a new preamp from Fosi Audio - the P4 and it has a remote with a motor driven volume, 3 inputs, 3 different gain setting and upgradable op-amps.

I already had my eyes on the mini amp trend and I was amazed but also happy to see how many new uses they have attracted - good for the industryl. I jumped on the Fosi P4. The USD 125 tag (intro price) was accepted by my better half. Connecting it I recognised the NE 5532 op amps sound signature. Perhaps the most used opamp in recording equiptment. For me it was a hint telling me the Fosi was a good choice. I really enjoy it as a tool feeding my needs but I am also impressed how much more my system is involving me in listening to music. For me and remembering back thinking about the systems and combinations I have owned, struggled to sound good and taking up real estate make me really re-evaluate the term “High-End”.

Today I am back on the track with the term “Audio Fidelity”. High-end for me is in most cases extraordiany expensive gear where the price vs quality is very low but the bling effect is extremely high sending signal I don’t need nor support. From a business point of view - I understand the concept of todays High End because you really need to sell a lot of Fosi P4’s before you see a decent profit. But I feel that is what Fosi does with the range of mini amps - it is a priority and it must be about what you feel for.

In my world it is a lifted finger where I am now more back on the essense of what its all about - listening to music. Sometimes it is healthy to be forced starting all over. Next step for me is to find a replacement for the OTL. It is my solar systems all time favorite and excels in inefficiency delivering mere 10 watts……and eating my storage battery, I will defenately check out the mini amps market and see if I can find an equaly surprising amp like the Fosi P4. Happy listening peeps. Exited to learn if there is other hifi affinados who has new experices to share…..Take care. Rgs Mike Dane