Are you able to articulate the differences in “sound” as characteristic to each (CH, Audio Research, VAC, D’Agostino)?
Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Exactly, he says it well. I am always amused when people claim they "know" how a recording should sound.
It always comes back to the Circle of Confusion:
Audio's Circle of Confusion
Audio’s “Circle of Confusion” is a term coined by Floyd Toole [1] that describes the confusion that exists within the audio recording and r...seanolive.blogspot.com
Even the original sound engineer cannot precisely know what's on the actual tape and how it should sound when reproduced "neutrally" because of all the fIltering through the equipment needed to listen through it, in the studio or otherwise. In that context the question becomes, how do you *know* your reproduction is neutral or not?
Al, you would have a very interesting discussion with Ralph on this topic. He often writes about knowing what the recording should sound like because he makes his own recordings and uses them as a reference for judging system performance.
Amir, you are able to articulate these ideas much more clearly than I could in my long system thread. Thank you.
No you are basing this on tonal colouration. Also it is not clear meant specifically your analogy to refer to boulder and kondo or an SS amp and a SET
Forget, sneezing and coughing and smelling. There is the sound that you hear through your ears, there is the energy you feel through your body, there is the emotion that the music evokes, and there is the sense of being present with the musicians playing their instruments in the moment. There may be other things also contributing to the holistic experience.
The point is, it is much more than just sound. It is also the creation of the event in your mind that then becomes a memory which can serve as a reference to that event, and that can be used to judge the quality of the listening experience you have at home. It’s a much more complex thing than just the sound reaching your ears.
And then at home, I want to experience all the things I mention above. I want to hear a sound that is similar to that of an actual violin. I want to feel the energy coming off of the cello or brass, or timpani. I want the emotion evoked by the music on the recording. I want the sense of presence of the musicians being in front of me in the space of the recording. I want all of that at home. It is a tall order, but that is the target. It is much more than just sound.
Last edited:
I feel you… I upgraded the power cord on my Creek integrated to a Sablon about a year ago
No; you are making the mistake of assuming that you understand my definition of "colored." I agree with you that colored includes homogenization. But tonal coloration can be a source of homogenization.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Yes I could do that in my system or any quality well set up system. The differences are audible and obvious. Trying to write the differences is quite another kettle of fish and trying to explain what one hears in inadequate words is a job for someone far better at prose than I. I am not nor do I ever want to be a reviewer.
I can add others as well like Gryphon, Riviera, Thrax as all of these I have had extensive opportunities to hear.
Thinking is not the way to look at it IMO. if its an SET, its colored, due to its prodigious distortion signature. Many solid state amps are too (those that sound bright).
Of the two I'd prefer an SET, but I also think there's better out there (similar distortion signature but much lower distortion overall, making for more neutral and more transparent).
Its probably more accurate to say the coloration of your amplifiers is innocuous. That is where thinking and reality converge.
Alright I'll go for the bait. This statement isn't accurate. The reason is headphones, which can be plugged directly into any 2 channel recorder, so not a lot of 'filtering through the equipment needed' is going on.
While amps and speakers continue to evolve, mics and headphones have been so good for decades on now that anyone, and I mean anyone can be fooled by them into thinking what they heard was real. I've had it happen many times, and have seen how jaundiced audiophiles react when it happens to them. So you can know quite well what's on the tape.
Tonal colouration is different from tonal colour
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
BTW an example of this albeit with digital rather than amplifiers please go to my website www.bendingwaveusa.com and read my clients testimonial . His experience and excitement is there the words that describe what he heard do they tell you what you need? I think the words are always inadequate but that's just me.
I'll grant you that using headphones can mitigate the problem. However, I do not think that headphone monitoring completely neutralizes it.
Headphones have colorations too, as evident from comparing different ones -- which is the absolutely "neutral" reference? Yet they do take the room out of the equation. Also, who can say that the built-in headphone amp is entirely neutral?
Interesting. Live music listening experience includes the complete visual and sensorial experience of being there - just what the sound engineers usually want to recreate, using stereo tricks, as referred indirectly by Peter Qvortrup.
Live music sound seems to me to be what Peter aims to ...
Would you buy these speakers for Lamm SETS's?
https://kharma.com/products/exquisite/exquisite-midi-grand-3-0/
No, I wouldn't. -- don't know about the others.
As an idea, why not try 92-93+ dB (rated @ 8ohm) speakers instead? There are many out there. Better still, horn-loaded speakers
those are pretty much what David Karmeli was using with Lamm ML2 SET's at CES in 2002. the Kharma Ceramiques 3.2 which was 89db, 8 ohm. similar speaker load to the new Kharma's. 91db, 4 ohm almost equal 89db, 8 ohm. it was a good match. and popular.
at that time i had Kharma Exquisite 1D's with Tenor OTL's......another fine match. and also popular. i liked the Tenor over the Lamm at that time. the Tenor's were more open (until they ignited), in contrast the Lamm very slightly dark (not opaque at all). but liked the Lamm/Kharma combo plenty.
Last edited:
The sound of acoustic instruments, and other amplifiers.
I can’t answer the question. Are you asking me if they have a flat frequency response? Are you asking me if they sound like a wire with gain? They help to create a listening experience that is closer the experience of live music than the other amplifiers that I have heard. I can’t identify what they are adding or subtracting. I can’t know if they sound exactly like the original recording because I can’t hear them outside of the context of the rest of the system and room, and I don’t know what the original recording sounds like in the first place.
I think our exchange is going nowhere. You don’t seem to accept my answers to your question.
Of course. If you want a different sound by something else. If you already have speakers you love then buy the appropriate amplifier to drive them. The amplifier speaker match is critical to having a good listening experience based on your subjective preference.
Similar threads
- Locked
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |