Is Wilson losing their marketing edge?

[metaphacts]

I think the resolution of this thread shows how silly the OP was. Wilson seems stronger than ever despite Dave's passing - that says a lot about the company.

and for all the Wilson vs Magico bickering, each has made the other better and improved choices for hifi consumers.

Though I would eliminate the word bickering, this is the most succinct statement in the entire thread. Rivals of similar quality and different approaches drive each other to be better. That Wilson will easily have their best year ever in 2018 is a direct reflection of that. I would expect the other guys to have their best year too.

 

[metaphacts]

That's interesting. By "big two" you must be referring to Wilson and Magico. Magico just celebrated ten years of being in business. They broke into the scene, seemingly out of nowhere. Perhaps others could learn from their approach. It seems to be working. If you are referring to some other brand, my comments probably make no sense.

"Magico L.L.C. was founded in 1996." https://www.bloomberg.com/profiles/companies/0414885D:US-magico-llc

"Magico, LLC is a manufacturer of high-fidelity loudspeakers and, while founded as a custom, boutique fabricator in the 1990s.." https://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/company-tours/magico-march-30-2011/146-introduction

Nothing wrong with this. Overnight successes are usually well earned over a long period of time.

 

[PeterA]

Metaphacts, Thank you for those links.

Yes, I was thinking more in terms of Magico selling their first commercial speakers to the general public. This started with the original Mini in I believe 2006. Such a refined, capable and successful product seemed to come out of nowhere at the time. It kind of took the monitor world by storm and it was all over the press at the time. I was not around at the time, but this seems somewhat similar to the response that David Wilson got with the first "Watt" speaker or WattPuppy.

The Mini was immediately followed by the Mini 2 and then the extremely expensive M5 and lower V models, followed quickly by the Q series. The M Pro, a culmination of everything they had learned about speaker design was released in 2016, and celebrated as a tenth anniversary launch with a limited 50 pair production. So it is really more like 12 years now, and, yes, they had been doing bespoke designs for studios and private customers before then, but the cover below is when they became known to the wider general audiophile public. It is an example of the great press coverage the brand has received.

Sorry to be off topic. Back to Wilson. I agree, the brands have both improved because of the competition. The Wilson videos and those print ad pages showing the skilled craftsmen at work doing very precise hand precision work are some of the only audio advertisements I can remember. Wilson does not seem to be losing its marketing edge from where I sit. And between the smallest design and the immense WAMM, they have the entire range covered.

I just heard a friend's Alexander X-2 driven by the dream Pass XS amps. It was one of the best systems I've ever heard.

 

[caesar]

...

The RIHPA Awards might be a more apropos measure for your thread title since those awards are given by the press from 13 countries around the world, rather than from one country or one show. In other words, you won't likely be nominated let alone win unless you have a reasonably strong global presence.

Aren't you curious, though, that Magico is not on the list? The TAS guys are not participating in these awards, and it's as if Magico doesn't exists? .... Psychology and economics of influence are fascinating indeed....

 

[caesar]

Yes I am and they certainly had a huge advocate in the press and a large budget for advertisement. Their plan worked well I agree.

Once a juggernaut like Wilson gets established, powerful psychological and economic forces take over (social proof, speakers marketed by a large number of authorities (including Fremer, ATkinson, and many others), dealers one may like may recommend them, potentially putting the power of reciprocity in play as well.) Although powerful as standalone forces of influence, these forces of persuasion become much more potent in combination with each other than as stand alone...

And furthermore, how did Magico join Wilson as the other of the BIG TWO? If it weren't for Sterile Jon Valin constantly marketing them in his every review over the last 10 years, they are likely would not quite be there... I wasn't around earlier, but Valin is by far the best audio writer today. (GOAT? maybe, but I haven't been around for much of J Gordon Holt or much of HP's career.) Compared to other "audio journalists" out there today, it's like Michael Jordan playing against 7th graders. (It's just too bad Valin is playing baseball instead of basketball.)

And at what cost? While Tom Martin and "Worthless to the Audio Fans" Robert Harley caged and castrated Harry Pearson, Sterile Jon Valin has violated and shattered the brand promise of TAS. Whereas as before one knew where HP was coming from with musical sounding gear like NOLA and Scaena, Valin has pushed "transparency to source"/ analytical gear that he likes. We can only imagine how HP felt in the last years of his life as TAS was pushing Magico Q5 with Soulution and Consoulation or Magico Q7 with the UBER ANALYTICAL, "best DAC extant", the Berkeley Reference DAC....

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/lets-call-the-whole-thing-off/
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/art...rol-amplifier-and-bp-1-mk-ii-power-amplifier/

This, of course, has given Valin immense power, as he can get any piece of gear he wants. And manufacturers are literally begging him to review their stuff.

But for the audio fans, it has wasted their precious time and money and has caused confusion. Simple example: I am looking for a $10K dac for my 4th system for a small room. Sterile Jon is about to review MSB. Do I take away precious time away from my family, work, and other responsibilities during the busy holiday season to bother with it, or since he likes frequently analytical gear, is it going to be a waste of my time?

So for those of us who are not into box speakers and don't really care for Magicos or Wilsons or for analytical sounding gear, the marketing forces are not on our side...

 

[PeterA]

But for the audio fans, it has wasted their precious time and money and has caused confusion. Simple example: I am looking for a $10K dac for my 4th system for a small room. Sterile Jon is about to review MSB. Do I take away precious time away from my family, work, and other responsibilities during the busy holiday season to bother with it, or since he likes frequently analytical gear, is it going to be a waste of my time?

Caesar, you sound confused, but why are you looking for answers from a bunch of strangers on an audio forum? We can't answer this question for you. Only you and perhaps your family can decide how you spend your time.

What is the point of this rant, or this thread?

 

[caesar]

Caesar, you sound confused, but why are you looking for answers from a bunch of strangers on an audio forum? We can't answer this question for you. Only you and perhaps your family can decide how you spend your time.

What is the point of this rant, or this thread?

Hi Peter,

I thought we were discussing ideas. What's with the personal attacks?

I am bringing up a concrete example of how the confused brand message of TAS is not working for regular audio shoppers like me. I thought you were a better man than personally attacking people you disagree with? And furthermore, if you think this thread is silly, why are you wasting precious moments of your life reading it and engaging? Don't you have anything better to do?

 

[caesar]

Though I would eliminate the word bickering, this is the most succinct statement in the entire thread. Rivals of similar quality and different approaches drive each other to be better. That Wilson will easily have their best year ever in 2018 is a direct reflection of that. I would expect the other guys to have their best year too.

Hi Metaphacts,
I think you are missing the big picture here. The title of the thread is just a way to break out of the clutter and get people's attention. To break it down and be perfectly frank, anyone who thinks Wilson is losing their marketing reputation is an idiot.

The real point is that there is an underlying hidden economic and psychological reality that exists that makes certain brands and experiences successful. My old prof., Dick Thaler, won the nobel prize for these types of ideas a year ago..

Reality exists whether people choose to acknowledge it or not... and these ideas are worth exploring, which is the point of this thread.

 

[twitch]

Hi Peter,

I thought we were discussing ideas. What's with the personal attacks?

I am bringing up a concrete example of how the confused brand message of TAS is not working for regular audio shoppers like me. I thought you were a better man than personally attacking people you disagree with? And furthermore, if you think this thread is silly, why are you wasting precious moments of your life reading it and engaging? Don't you have anything better to do?

Wow.......if you thought that was a personal attack you are 'thin skinned' !

Hi Metaphacts,
I think you are missing the big picture here. The title of the thread is just a way to break out of the clutter and get people's attention. To break it down and be perfectly frank, anyone who thinks Wilson is losing their marketing reputation is an idiot.

The real point is that there is an underlying hidden economic and psychological reality that exists that makes certain brands and experiences successful. My old prof., Dick Thaler, won the nobel prize for these types of ideas a year ago..

Reality exists whether people choose to acknowledge it or not... and these ideas are worth exploring, which is the point of this thread.

LOL, over 7 years of 'exploring' , what have you found ??

 

[caesar]

Wow.......if you thought that was a personal attack you are 'thin skinned' !


LOL, over 7 years of 'exploring' , what have you found ??

Again, not sure what this has to do with me...

Many people are intimidated about the complexities of high end audio. But research shows that In situations of anxiety and uncertainty people do follow predictable patterns... you can read a few posts above, and I will expand on the ideas further when I have more time..

High end Audio is a very intellectually shallow hobby. You got a bunch of designers who are audio chefs - even the latest Wilson Sasha ad copy used this analogy!!!!


On the fan side, you got a bunch of guys on forums screaming as loud as they can that their gear is the best because they like it...And many of the fans are platonists who go to hear a concert and then come home and put on a recording of the same piece to compare how the concert sounds in relation to their recording, system component selection, and the acoustic effects of their room... (And after they install a $10K cable, it sounds real! but only for a few months!)

Whatever rocks people's boat is fine with me, but the 2 best and most talented reviewers and top intellectual leaders out there today, the Great Peter Breuniner and Sterile Jon Valin, who are obviously both, platonists, have taken it to the next level. These guys were actually physically fighting at a fairly recent Axpona about which turntable they imagine is more real inside their mind. Thank God those mother fuyers didn't have knives . Or guns!!!!

Accepting new ideas takes time.. Dick Thaler has been at it since the late 60's, and he finally has been recognized...Periodic reviews better than cramming over just a few hours..

 

[metaphacts]

Hi Metaphacts,
I think you are missing the big picture here. The title of the thread is just a way to break out of the clutter and get people's attention. To break it down and be perfectly frank, anyone who thinks Wilson is losing their marketing reputation is an idiot.

The real point is that there is an underlying hidden economic and psychological reality that exists that makes certain brands and experiences successful. My old prof., Dick Thaler, won the nobel prize for these types of ideas a year ago..

Reality exists whether people choose to acknowledge it or not... and these ideas are worth exploring, which is the point of this thread.

Much ado about nothing.

 

[twitch]

Much ado about nothing.

amen to that ...........

 

[C.A.P]

Those of you who have not been to the shows( MAJOR ones) and the local dealer demos have no real clue. Wilson is not loosing any marketing value. Comparing Wilson to Magico or any other designer is a Mute point . It seems to me that when the new kid on the block comes out with gloves swinging its "Are they as good as Wilson>>> Insert model ! Wilson has a distinct sound in each line. I like to call it the Focal tweeter sound or the Silk sound.. Focal sound is very dynamic and revealing of upstream gear. The silk sound is less forward and a bit smoother . I tend to think less downstream picky..

Having JUST heard the Sasha DAW I can tell you this!

" IF " they can even keep the DAW in stock for the first year I will be surprised.. What Daryl has done with the platform is nothing short of amazing .. The realness and time coherence is something you have to hear.. Word of mouth and truth in demos are the best marketing tools.. Like the old saying.. It aint bragging if you can prove it !

I

 

[Lee]

Is Wilson Audio losing its marketing edge? I've not seen any evidence of that. In fact, they seem to be on a roll. The Sasha DAW looks to be a smashing success. The Alexia 2 just got a Product of the Year award from Stereophile. They are selling tons of WAMMs which is really an $800K speaker as everyone buys the gigantic subwoofers.

The dealer network is strong globally. And the marketing team of John, Peter, and Bill are some of the most experienced people in the business.

Which brings us to Daryl, a hard-working, smart, chip off the old block who is pushing out highly musical designs.

The Wilson customer is in very good hands.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The longevity, depth, robustness and stability of the Wilson Audio company I think is actually one of the leading features and competitive advantages of Wilson Audio.

 

[microstrip]

The longevity, depth, robustness and stability of the Wilson Audio company I think is actually one of the leading features and competitive advantages of Wilson Audio.

IMHO Wilson Audio, besides consistency in their type of sound along the years, also listen to the market trends and to audiophile preferences. It is one of the few speaker brands that can sound excellent with digital, showing it at its best since the 90's. My audiophile friends who own Wilson Audio listen mostly to CDs and streaming, curiously those owning to an alternative brand listen to LPs (one has tape) and complain digital music does not sound good at all ...

 

[bonzo75]

This too anecdotal, picking up Myles to explain liking TT and tape with Magico. You can similarly say that Steve, Tima, and two of Gian's friends (and that's 100 percent of the known Wilson population in the main Milan group) who are all Wilson owners, are primarily analog.

There are a lot of apogee and Logan owners who are digital only.. Means nothing.

These days there will be a lot of digital around. Duh

 

[KeithR]

IMHO Wilson Audio, besides consistency in their type of sound along the years,

I'm sorry, but this is LOL.

 

[bonzo75]

I'm sorry, but this is LOL.

It seems like micro has lost his marketing edge

 

[Ron Resnick]

IMHO Wilson Audio, besides consistency in their type of sound along the years, also listen to the market trends and to audiophile preferences. It is one of the few speaker brands that can sound excellent with digital, showing it at its best since the 90's. My audiophile friends who own Wilson Audio listen mostly to CDs and streaming, curiously those owning to an alternative brand listen to LPs (one has tape) and complain digital music does not sound good at all ...

Respectfully I don’t think this makes any sense or has any empirical or logical rigor behind it. As much as I like Steve’s system and my friend’s Alexx system I dislike digital on them just as much as I dislike digital generally on any non-Wilson system.