Is Wilson losing their marketing edge?

[andromedaaudio]

I think the S 5 is currently the best bang for buck magico with enough bass i think JA will think pretty highly of the mk2
My favourite magico is probably still the V3 with the ultra smooth/ never hard on the ear ringradiator tweeter ( mini has a ringradiator as well but not as much membranesurface ) although the Q 7 is great also imo

The housing : 14 mm extruded braced iirc aluminium with a probably bit thicker frontplate does a very good job imo

 

[caesar]

I think the S 5 is currently the best bang for buck magico with enough bass i think JA will think pretty highly of the mk2
My favourite magico is probably still the V3 with the ultra smooth/ never hard on the ear ringradiator tweeter ( mini has a ringradiator as well but not as much membranesurface ) although the Q 7 is great also imo

The housing : 14 mm extruded braced iirc aluminium with a probably bit thicker frontplate does a very good job imo

Agree with you on the S5 v2. However, one has to really mind the amplification. Other manufacturers, like Wilson, design the speaker to make it easier for the consumer to mate speakers and amps. And Raidho makes their own amplification.

A few years ago, magico tried to introduce their own amps, but their efforts got shouted down by the elites, in favor of Soulution. I wonder if Magico can hire a talented amp designer, and just sell an all magico system.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Kharma might be the best example of a LS manufacturer designing amps as well .
My opinion is let a farmer be farmer , let a banker be a banker , one should just do what he does best and where his /her interest lies .
Not a fan of raidho they also make their own units , not very capable in the bass region and not able to put out loud spls.

The kharma P 150 pre amp is still a pre i want to try out , heard it on the big monos and kharma exquisite years ago , sounded special

 

[PeterA]

Agree with you on the S5 v2. However, one has to really mind the amplification. Other manufacturers, like Wilson, design the speaker to make it easier for the consumer to mate speakers and amps. And Raidho makes their own amplification.

A few years ago, magico tried to introduce their own amps, but their efforts got shouted down by the elites, in favor of Soulution. I wonder if Magico can hire a talented amp designer, and just sell an all magico system.

Pass Labs designed some speakers a few years back. The first model, the Rushmore, was all active with their Aleph Class A for mids and highs and their X series Class A/B for the woofers. I never heard them, but I understand they sounded really good. I'm not sure that traditional dealerships want to sell active speakers because of their other lines of products.

 

[microstrip]

(...) My favourite magico is probably still the V3 with the ultra smooth/ never hard on the ear ringradiator tweeter ( mini has a ringradiator as well but not as much membranesurface ) (...)

I have listened to the V3 and unexpectedly compared to the Mini II it sounded slightly bright - a pity considering we can get it now used at a low price. It would represent an excellent buy - a quality 3 way with a great structure with a very good tweeter. The Krell LAT1000, that also used the same tweeter was much mellower sounding. Probably my listening was affected by the need to use an high power SS amplifier - the speaker was too inefficient for middle power tubes.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I heard it on zanden 9600 3000 1200 phono and tw acoustic with koetsu coral , so probably 100 K on amps , one of the best demos ever , the zanden i think 90 watts drove them perfect imo .
we also did a comparison with several cd s on the zanden double box front end , the diff wasnt that much.

I thought the LAT was using a vifa ringradiator but i might be wrong

 

[microstrip]

I heard it on zanden 9600 3000 1200 phono and tw acoustic with koetsu coral , so probably 100 K on amps , one of the best demos ever , the zanden i think 90 watts drove them perfect imo .
we also did a comparison with several cd s on the zanden double box front end , the diff wasnt that much.

I thought the LAT was using a vifa ringradiator but i might be wrong

I can imagine the Zanden system was a much better match for these speakers.

The Krell LAT1 used the Vifa XT ring radiator, the Krell LAT-1000 used a Scan-speak ring radiator - and IMHO had a much better treble!

 

[slcaudiophile]

Magico is pretty good at marketing too. The company is just ten years old. Yes, perhaps Magico has the reputation of being an "accurate" speaker, true to the source, the recording. But they promote a photograph of Wolf playing his guitar. They don't show a bunch of measurements the way YG does.

From your post, I get the sense that you think a person who owns Magico is not interested in a system which reminds him of a live musical event, but rather wants a speaker that does not stand in the way of the recording. I don't think it is that simple, or black and white. The people I know who own, or what to own, Magico speakers, listen to lots of live music, use it as a reference, and may also want a speaker that does not stand in the way of the recording.

Ok, back to Wilson.

i don't know if this a good thing most of the time.

 

[slcaudiophile]

Peter, a few thoughts:
- I agree with you - valin likes them a lot. He also likes the fact that they "improve" (or make different sounding) speakers every few years. After all, it's hard to fake love over a long period of time. He has bought into the magico brand story and has embellished it over the years...
- Let's also not forget that it was Harry Pearson who first discovered the magico mini for TAS... To many folks the q1 is nothing like the mini, to others it's an improvement. And taste-wise, Harry Pearson would never pair magico and soulution...
- I am not convinced Harley is a Wilson guy. Surprisingly, he was invited to David Wilson's house to listen to the WAMM. Before that, he dissed the Alexandria xlf for having a silk tweeter in favor of some exotic metal tweeter magico used in q7 v1. He also still uses the magico q7 as his reference. But let's also remember that this guy couldn't tell any weaknesses in q7, such as no beitzim in the bass and a spotlighting of the upper midrange / lower treble in the q7 - until only after the q7 v2 came out! This sonic signature of the q series was obvious to every listener since q series came out, even to valin eventually. Who can respect Harley after that debacle? Amazing that Tom Martin, who owns TAS, has abdicated his leadership to him...But hey, this is a business, so maybe David Wilson bit his lip and will now let Harley have the WAMM so that he dump magico???
- As for marketing influence technique, I have read that in some cultures, particularly Asian cultures which are less individualist and more collectivist, people do not trust themselves as much as people do in the west, so they seek out authority figures and base their decisions disproportionally on those. For the rest of us, there are multiple influence techniques at play beyond appeal to authority, including seeking attention using exotic materials, social proof of large amount of people packing rooms at shows, scarcity, hearing emotionally-laden stories, etc. The combination of these methods is much more potent than just a single technique...

i dont understand this. you do understand that at least 51% of all high-end produced is sold to Asian markets, yes? if Asia doesn't accept a product it is not build. full stop.

 

[PeterA]

i dont understand this. you do understand that at least 51% of all high-end produced is sold to Asian markets, yes? if Asia doesn't accept a product it is not build. full stop.

Are you saying that all high end products are first tested for acceptance in Asia before being built? I realize that the Asian market is important, but had no idea it was this influential. Do Nick Doshi and Joel Durand test their designs in Asia first and then decide to build them and sell them in the US? How were you able to verify this claim? Just curious.

 

[slcaudiophile]

Are you saying that all high end products are first tested for acceptance in Asia before being built? I realize that the Asian market is important, but had no idea it was this influential. Do Nick Doshi and Joel Durand test their designs in Asia first and then decide to build them and sell them in the US? How were you able to verify this claim? Just curious.

the two companies you mentioned may or may not, it is unlikely. but i guess we are comparing companies with annual revenues in the less than $1M and those with annual revenues in the $5M+. i am referring to the latter. and yes, larger companies most certainly get the AOK with asian markets before they spend any real money on production.

can i verify this claim? without an income statement no. since most of these companies are not public no can do.

 

[FrantzM]

i dont understand this. you do understand that at least 51% of all high-end produced is sold to Asian markets, yes? if Asia doesn't accept a product it is not build. full stop.

I think you're conservative. Above 60% would be closer to the truth.

 

[caesar]

With Wilson elevating Daryl to head the company, I wonder what marketing changes the company will make to eventually replace the aging Peter McGrath. Wilson has always had McGrath play many of his excellent, high-resolution recordings at shows and events to help them stand out. McGrath's professorial look and sophisticated speech patterns always created the aura that Wilson was a serious brand for classical musical fans.

But McGrath is no longer a spring chicken. I wonder who they have in their bullpen or farm system... I also wonder if they thought of this...

 

[Steve Williams]

With Wilson elevating Daryl to head the company, I wonder what marketing changes the company will make to eventually replace the aging Peter McGrath. Wilson has always had McGrath play many of his excellent, high-resolution recordings at shows and events to help them stand out. McGrath's professorial look and sophisticated speech patterns always created the aura that Wilson was a serious brand for classical musical fans.

But McGrath is no longer a spring chicken. I wonder who they have in their bullpen or farm system... I also wonder if they thought of this...

Bill Peugh has just been hired and I am betting he will replace McGrath. Bill is a member here and goes by "metaphacts"

 

[KeithR]

I think what's interesting about this multi-year thread is that Wilson is clearly now doing better than ever and has built momentum since with Alexia, Alexx, Yvette, and Sabrina.

 

[Elberoth]

I don't think so. Just look on-line and see the numbers (In fact, one can argue that Magico used prices are higher). Regardless, most of the comments here are heavily biased. Caesar keeps bashing poor Vain, never once stopping to consider that he matters very little around the world where Magico may be just as popular and maybe even more so than in the US. No one here cares about Raidho, (or Rockport) a brand that valin promote as well. He also ignores the fact that all over the world reviewers are switching to Magico as their reference, some were big Wilson's fan (like MC of HiFi critics). Magico is succeeding because of their superior performance only, nothing else. Not cleaver marketing or bigger discount to dealers (actually, you can get better deals on Wilson), or one reviewer drumbeat, and people are changing sides, and the ones that I know all go the same way (Even the distributor here, who represents both, listen to Magico at his house not Wilson).

+1

Some very good points.

Very few audiophiles read TAS in Europe. Valin's influence over here is close to zero. Not sure about Asia, but I would be surprised if it was any different. And yet, Magico enjoys a streak of rave reviews all over european press.

 

[microstrip]

+1

Some very good points.

Very few audiophiles read TAS in Europe. Valin's influence over here is close to zero. Not sure about Asia, but I would be surprised if it was any different. And yet, Magico enjoys a streak of rave reviews all over european press.

European readers read mostly local press in their language or mostly UK press. It is what people find in airport and large railway stations magazine and convenience stores ... Currently almost all products get rave reviews.

 

[cannata]

...Currently almost all products get rave reviews.

But I thought that you are good in reading between the lines...

 

[microstrip]

But I thought that you are good in reading between the lines...

Only when I have a reasonable knowledge of the reviewer and the manufacturer, something that does not happen every time.

 

[metaphacts]

I think you're conservative. Above 60% would be closer to the truth.

Interesting.

I can tell you that at Wilson Audio we have not now,or never have been anywhere near 60% of revenue from Asian markets. They are definitely solid but any established company seeks to maintain a balance among world-wide markets. This not only maximizes sales but helps to insulate company stability and growth against regional market ups and downs.