Keith's Dream Amplifier Thread

[musicfirst1]

this is an interesting reccomendation...have you heard the ml2.2 power other speakers with a similar sensitivity to the yg? the ocassional ml2.1 pops up here and there on the usual used sites at great prices and i'm always tempted to have a go. i've seen them in person and they are gorgeous but 18watts always gives me pause (i have previously run/my brother currently runs dynaudio bookshelves with a nice line magnetic 22watt pushpull - it's a great sound for sure)

It could be - just I haven't seen a pair for sale in the six months I've had an eye out. I don't think the M2.2 is a popular Lamm amp, so not as many pairs in the field to begin with.

But if I love the PS Audios, then that's probably my end game. If not, I'll probably stick with class a/b SS. The decision won't be hard and PS Audios regularly trade on the used market.

Sorry guys, I meant the M2.2s not the ML2.2s, which I haven't heard, although I've never been a fan of low power amps driving low efficiency speakers.
I've corrected my original post.

 

[KeithR]

In my experience, if one hears the soundstage between the speakers, any speakers, it is either that the amplifier is not well matched, or there is something seriously wrong with the room or set up.

Keith, are you hearing different soundstage characteristics with the different amps that you have been trying, or is it something else?

Peter, with the Luxman the sound was definitely between the speakers. As Ron and Jeff can attest to, once we put in a pair of baby 400wpc digital amps - the speakers "disappeared" in their words.

You also asked on another thread what dealers recommend - Alma recommends Luxman and D'agostino. Another former YG dealer I talked to recommends Luxman and Rowland. GTT Audio historically likes YG on Soulution and Audionet. I believe YG has D'agostino and Audionet in the factory. The new, local YG dealer is pairing them with Nagra I believe - I have not heard that combo.

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of spending $ on fancy casework for amplification. (Ironically I owned a Dartzeel, although I considered it very good value as the integrated included a full preamp with separate transformer and excellent phono stage). People seem to think the Zillas won't sound as good as others considering the modest price - but his circuit sounds better than just about all SS i've heard. There is a 3d-ness, spatial projection, and tonality to the sound that 90% of SS amps don't get.

 

[musicfirst1]

Peter, with the Luxman the sound was definitely between the speakers. As Ron and Jeff can attest to, once we put in a pair of baby 400wpc digital amps - the speakers "disappeared" in their words.

You also asked on another thread what dealers recommend - Alma recommends Luxman and D'agostino. Another former YG dealer I talked to recommends Luxman and Rowland. GTT Audio historically likes YG on Soulution and Audionet. I believe YG has D'agostino and Audionet in the factory. The new, local YG dealer is pairing them with Nagra I believe - I have not heard that combo.

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of spending $ on fancy casework for amplification. (Ironically I owned a Dartzeel, although I considered it very good value as the integrated included a full preamp with separate transformer and excellent phono stage). People seem to think the Zillas won't sound as good as others considering the modest price - but his circuit sounds better than just about all SS i've heard. There is a 3d-ness, spatial projection, and tonality to the sound that 90% of SS amps don't get.

Zillas? You mean Ampzillas?

 

[knghifi]

Did you try the CAT pre ?

Yes, was offer excellent deal purchasing both. No problems with SQ but at the time, I have VAC SigMKIIa SE preamp. I've always prefer transformer coupling tube preamps. Usually more neutral and lower output impedance.

 

[Folsom]

I forget, was there a reason to avoid used MSB amps? The ones that are round with fins all over?

 

[gadawg58]

I’ve heard YGs sound excellent with Gryphon amplification.

George

 

[musicfirst1]

I forget, was there a reason to avoid used MSB amps? The ones that are round with fins all over?

I owned the MSB M203's before I heard the Audionet Max's. They are excellent amps, but on the cool side of neutral. I'm not sure if many would like the pairing with the YGs, but they are excellent amps for the money, especially at their used asking price.

 

[Folsom]

When I heard them on YG the last description I'd have is cool.

 

[jeff1225]

When I heard them on YG the last description I'd have is cool.

@Folsom I agree 100% with you and have brought up these amps to Keith many times. Honestly I'm not a big fan of digital or YG speakers, but I've heard these MSB amps on YG at a show and absolutely loved the sound. It was one of my best of show rooms. Keith is afraid that they'll be too hot.....but that's why God made Air Conditioning.

 

[tima]

It could be - just I haven't seen a pair for sale in the six months I've had an eye out. I don't think the M2.2 is a popular Lamm amp, so not as many pairs in the field to begin with.

It's not as popular as the M1.2 Ref. There used to be more of a price divergence between M1.2 and M2.2; now they are within a few hundred dollars of each other. I'm thinking (maybe) today there are more speakers now that are harder to drive than when both models were introduced, thus higher sales of the M1.2 earlier on. Lamm is not on the continual-upgrade-drives-publicity train so you don't hear much about them from the press, their last review being from Greece in 2009. The last M1.2 review was either mine or Matej's in the middle of this decade. Maybe I should ask they send me a pair - I'd love to hear them with my Alexia2s.

I only know YG from shows but the M2.2s are worthy of consideration. Paul Bolin told me the amps are very very close to the M1.2s and he tends to be spot-on. Not meaning to step out of bounds, but maybe Steve could get you a pair to try.

 

[bonzo75]

Peter, with the Luxman the sound was definitely between the speakers. As Ron and Jeff can attest to, once we put in a pair of baby 400wpc digital amps - the speakers "disappeared" in their words.

You also asked on another thread what dealers recommend - Alma recommends Luxman and D'agostino. Another former YG dealer I talked to recommends Luxman and Rowland. GTT Audio historically likes YG on Soulution and Audionet. I believe YG has D'agostino and Audionet in the factory. The new, local YG dealer is pairing them with Nagra I believe - I have not heard that combo.

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of spending $ on fancy casework for amplification. (Ironically I owned a Dartzeel, although I considered it very good value as the integrated included a full preamp with separate transformer and excellent phono stage). People seem to think the Zillas won't sound as good as others considering the modest price - but his circuit sounds better than just about all SS i've heard. There is a 3d-ness, spatial projection, and tonality to the sound that 90% of SS amps don't get.

I recommended Luxman on Hailey in December 2016. http://zero-distortion.org/yg-hailey/

If the sound in your demo was in the middle, that would be the passive preamp under driving it.

I have no doubt dagostino and audionet will be better but of course those who can afford them need not look at Luxman.

 

[awsmone]

Heard soulution 700 with Sonja very good, 700 much warmer than 710 which is more analytical

octave is good with smaller YG s

 

[awsmone]

It's not as popular as the M1.2 Ref. There used to be more of a price divergence between M1.2 and M2.2; now they are within a few hundred dollars of each other. I'm thinking (maybe) today there are more speakers now that are harder to drive than when both models were introduced, thus higher sales of the M1.2 earlier on. Lamm is not on the continual-upgrade-drives-publicity train so you don't hear much about them from the press, their last review being from Greece in 2009. The last M1.2 review was either mine or Matej's in the middle of this decade. Maybe I should ask they send me a pair - I'd love to hear them with my Alexia2s.

I only know YG from shows but the M2.2s are worthy of consideration. Paul Bolin told me the amps are very very close to the M1.2s and he tends to be spot-on. Not meaning to step out of bounds, but maybe Steve could get you a pair to try.

I have owned both

the 2.2 are more powerful and a little AB sounding

the 1.2 are more class A sounding and less powerful

with inefficient speakers or big room go for 2.2

in fact I wish I hadn’t swapped my 2.2 for 1.2

 

[tima]

I have owned both

the 2.2 are more powerful and a little AB sounding

the 1.2 are more class A sounding and less powerful

with inefficient speakers or big room go for 2.2

in fact I wish I hadn’t swapped my 2.2 for 1.2

Dedicated room with acoustic panelling front wall and reflections
8.5ft by 16ft by 60 ft

You do have a big room!

 

[Al M.]

Keith is afraid that they'll be too hot.....but that's why God made Air Conditioning.

Yeah, for more climate change, that's right.

Don't know about Keith's room, but I don't have air conditioning in my music room, and one of the reasons why I decided against auditioning Octave monoblocks, and went with an Octave stereo amp instead, was heat (half the tubes in the stereo amp). It's total overkill for my 92 dB sensitive monitors anyway (my subs each have a built in 1800 W class D amp that basically generates no heat).

Fortunately, the 130 W/ch Octave class A/B amp produces much less heat than my previous 15 W/ch triode class A monoblocks did. What a relief in the summer!

So yeah, I'm not a big fan of amplifier heat either.

 

[jeff1225]

Yeah, for more climate change, that's right.

Don't know about Keith's room, but I don't have air conditioning in my music room, and one of the reasons why I decided against auditioning Octave monoblocks, and went with an Octave stereo amp instead, was heat (half the tubes in the stereo amp). It's total overkill for my 92 dB sensitive monitors anyway (my subs each have a built in 1800 W class D amp that basically generates no heat).

Fortunately, the 130 W/ch Octave class A/B amp produces much less heat than my previous 15 W/ch triode class A monoblocks did. What a relief in the summer!

So yeah, I'm not a big fan of amplifier heat either.

Keith lives in the Valley in Los Angeles, it’s hot as hell.....

 

[KeithR]

I recommended Luxman on Hailey in December 2016. http://zero-distortion.org/yg-hailey/

If the sound in your demo was in the middle, that would be the passive preamp under driving it.

We tried an active preamp. In fact all 4-5 actives I've tried against the Music First did not improve dynamics or shove. I will say the actives usually get you a sliver wider soundstage.

fyi, I've had people reach out to me on the Lux privately with similar opinions. It doesn't sound as powerful as it rates and bass isn't its strong point. Most move to monoblocks for this reason. I just don't want to spend that much.

 

[bonzo75]

We tried an active preamp. In fact all 4-5 actives I've tried against the Music First did not improve dynamics or shove. I will say the actives usually get you a sliver wider soundstage.

fyi, I've had people reach out to me on the Lux privately with similar opinions. It doesn't sound as powerful as it rates and bass isn't its strong point. Most move to monoblocks for this reason. I just don't want to spend that much.

Yes moving to monos makes it more powerful but impedance seen is halved.

 

[chuck]

I respect your opinion. The speakers (YG) are only giving you what is behind them. In those electronics a very neutral, powerful and highly resolving sound.

It just comes down to subjective synergy to find the combo the end user enjoys. With YG its very easy to hear every change (for better or worse) in the front end.

That is certainly true of YGs.

I never liked YG until I heard them with Boulder, first at CES (2160) then in my own room (3060), because every other time they alway sounded like they were constrained, by comparison other amps lacked what Yoav Geva describes as the ". . . the stability and speed necessary to drive the speaker to its full potential." Mono and Stereo interview.

I'm not a fan of amps with the "warm" tone that Keith R. is seeking and Boulder has none so he may be right to cross Boulder off the list, but a Boulder 1160 or 1161 audition would be worthwhile first.

 

[KeithR]

Yes moving to monos makes it more powerful but impedance seen is halved.

one dealer told me the Lux was actually designed as monos, first. i found that interesting considering they bridge them.