KLAudio returns - new KD-CLN-LP200T RCM

[howiebrou]

KLaudio's reply:

Hello,

We don't recommend using tap water in the LP200 model, due to potential corrosion and buildup issues.

The LP200T includes a filter to handle tap water, and distilled water might not activate the level sensor if the conductivity is too low.


Best Regards,
Tim

klaudio.com

 

[tima]

KLaudio's reply:

Hello,

We don't recommend using tap water in the LP200 model, due to potential corrosion and buildup issues.

The LP200T includes a filter to handle tap water, and distilled water might not activate the level sensor if the conductivity is too low.


Best Regards,
Tim

klaudio.com

Thanks for that info, Howied.

I must be missing something here...

Tap water can be what we call 'hard water'. It has dissolved minerals in it above a certain figure, Above ~60 millgrams per liter (mg/l) is moderately hard, above ~120 mg/l is hard, above 180mg/l is very hard. You can see hard water minerals build up at the spout of a faucet and they'll do the same in an RCM tank.

Distillied water typically reads 0.00 on a TDS meter, meaning there are no minerals that have electrical conductivity.

So KLA says don't use hard water in one model because of build-up and don't use distilled water because they use a sensor (electronic solenoid) that gauges water level and has a valve to shut off the water supply at a certain fill level? - presumably the existence of water at the sensor using something similar to a TDS meter. On top of this, they say use no surfactants.This strikes me as a design issue - the machine is too fancy for itself.

So what do they want you to use? Is this an 'encouragement' to buy their filter which strikes me as being v. expensive ($530), plus additional filter inserts ($10).

Both the Klaudio and the Degritter offer reasons why building your own dual-frequency ultrasonic RCM is, for me anyway, the best option. The only disclaimer I see is the DIY RCM can take more space.

 

[howiebrou]

Thanks for that info, Howied.

I must be missing something here...

Tap water can be what we call 'hard water'. It has dissolved minerals in it above a certain figure, Above ~60 millgrams per liter (mg/l) is moderately hard, above ~120 mg/l is hard, above 180mg/l is very hard. You can see hard water minerals build up at the spout of a faucet and they'll do the same in an RCM tank.

Distillied water typically reads 0.00 on a TDS meter, meaning there are no minerals that have electrical conductivity.

So KLA says don't use hard water in one model because of build-up and don't use distilled water because they use a sensor (electronic solenoid) that gauges water level and has a valve to shut off the water supply at a certain fill level? - presumably the existence of water at the sensor using something similar to a TDS meter. On top of this, they say use no surfactants.This strikes me as a design issue - the machine is too fancy for itself.

So what do they want you to use? Is this an 'encouragement' to buy their filter which strikes me as being v. expensive ($530), plus additional filter inserts ($10).

Both the Klaudio and the Degritter offer reasons why building your own dual-frequency ultrasonic RCM is, for me anyway, the best option. The only disclaimer I see is the DIY RCM can take more space.

I don't understand it either. But for me, it's a moot point since mine has no filter so I will continue to use distilled water. All I can say is that it continues to clean LPs pretty well.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Is there any reason for people with the old machine to upgrade to the new machine?

 

[tima]

Is there any reason for people with the old machine to upgrade to the new machine?

That's a tough question Ron without more information such as:
- are you satisfied with the results you're getting from the old machine
- what is the age of old machine
- are you having any problems with the old machine, etc. etc.

If you are satisfied with the results from the old machine and having no problems, then my answer would be: no.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That's a tough question Ron without more information such as:
- are you satisfied with the results you're getting from the old machine
- what is the age of old machine
- are you having any problems with the old machine, etc. etc.

If you are satisfied with the results from the old machine and having no problems, then my answer would be: no.

Thank you, Tim.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Directly plumbed to a water source would be great, and to a drain for that matter. Like the espresso nuts do. That is, if tap water really is a good way to clean records. I guess they're mixing it with some distilled water, but still. TDS is going to be very non-zero and tap water content is all over the place depending on locality. It seems questionable and I don't see a satisfactory explanation in that blurb.

a lot of houses in UK have water filters installed on the incoming water feed into the house - mainly to remove the “hardness” that results in furred up plumbing. I do like the concept of plumbed in for feed and drain though - would be awesome.

Now if Miele made record cleaning machines….lol

 

[howiebrou]

Is there any reason for people with the old machine to upgrade to the new machine?

I'm not going to unless my breaks. Mine has worked faultlessly for what must be 6 years +? Hope I haven't tempted fate!

 

[tima]

I think the new KLaudio machines are more about the company returning to business than creating a reason to upgrade. The original machines had a reputation for quality and reliability. (That's not a judgement on cleaning ability.) Most users were sorry to see them leave the field.

The first KLaudios were a competitor with what was then the only viable desktop RCM, the Audio Desk Systeme. Early ADS models had some problems with the machines and support as Reiner Gläss pioneered his machine, improving it as it gained market share but he took some arrows along the way. Degritter had the opportunity to assess the positives and negatives from both efforts before releasing their model which had its own training wheels. They were beta testing for what, a year? I give them credit for being quick to improve before launch and respond afterwards. KLaudio did not have to face them in the marketplace when they started. Degritter has come out with a new model that adopts dual frequency from the DIY/industial world while addressing rinsing. Nonetheless, competition is good; I see it as a positive that KLA returns to the marketplace.

 

[rando]

Now if Miele made record cleaning machines….lol

They'd be well placed to install a small refrigerator compressor that allowed uninterrupted use of "heavy" cycle.

 

[PhonoDac2704]

Thank you for your suggestion

 

[Klaudio/Peter]

That loader scares me! I would be nervous putting valuable records in it initially.

Using an autoloader inevitably comes with the risk of damage during use.
However, once you try it out, you will find very satisfied with how rare these incidents are, similar to the low occurance of airplane accidents.

 

[Klaudio/Peter]

KLAudio is back with a new RCM: the KD-CLN-LP200T. Looks like it continues to be made in Korea.

$6000 available at Acoustic Sounds who is the distributor. Sounds like AS had a hand in returning KL to the marketplace.

Record Cleaning Machine|Acoustic Sounds

Acoustic Sounds Audiophile Vinyl Records

store.acousticsounds.com

There is also the KLA LP Loader which works with the LP200T. This lets you process 5 records in succession. $3080

Klaudio-Automatic Disc Loader-Record Cleaning Machine|Acoustic Sounds

Acoustic Sounds Audiophile Vinyl Records

store.acousticsounds.com

A noise isolation box will be available similar to the original. Reminds me of dot-matrix printers.

-- The new LP200T looks physically robust. Something is made of it having "200W total ultrasonic cleaning power". Not sure how this translates in effectiveness for this particular machine because tank volume is not specified. (The Elmasonic P120H tank operates at 330W (~100W/gallon) with peak power of 1320W.)

-- KL/AS does not say transducer frequency. Iirc the orginal operated at 40Hz. If this new model had dual frequency you bet it would be advertised.

-- A cooling unit (fan) is an option to maintain water temperature. Cooling unit kicks in when water temp reaches 35°C. A nice feature.

-- Includes an external water pump and filter. We are not given any information about the filter.

-- Wash and dry cycles independently adjustable 0-5 minutes.

-- Water supply available via an external tank with a filter. This looks like a plus for easier tank changing.

This new model retains what imo is the original's basic weakness - it does not allow the use of anything beside water.. Ultrasonic action alone is effective, but to get a record really clean some chemistry is needed to lower surface tension and gain some detergency - or so says my years of experience with a variety of record cleaning methods.

I was surprised the manufacturer states:

Fill the reservoir with tap or bottled drinking
water to about 75-90%.

Distilled water is not recommended, because
the electrical conductivity may be too low for the
cleaner to begin the wash cycle.

The original KLAudio machine had many fans. I suspect this new machine will be successful although it now has more marketplace competition than previously. Welcome back KLAudio.

Unboxing video:

Regarding the distilled water issue is not only sensor but also too much sense for the cleaning result,
after we changed concept to external reservoir with heavy filter.
This new concept is not only easy to use for simple water exchange and internal cleaning, but also continue good result and damage record and RCM from long-term water decay.

 

[tima]

Regarding the distilled water issue is not only sensor but also too much sense for the cleaning result,
after we changed concept to external reservoir with heavy filter.
This new concept is not only easy to use for simple water exchange and internal cleaning, but also continue good result and damage record and RCM from long-term water decay.

Thank you Peter for the follow-up explanation. Nice to have you here.

 

[Klaudio/Peter]

M&S article appears to answer this nearly to complete satisfaction. Suspect you will receive a nearly identical reply from Klaudio.

Klaudio T model pursues specialized cleaning, convenient water exchange and cleaning of water tanks.
It maintains the cleaning results and prevents damage to the machine even with lazy water exchange.
Additionally, it prevents corrosion or damage to the internal part of the cleaner by using an external tank, which leads to the optimal condition and extended lifespan of the machine.

 

[rich121]

Will be picking up my new KL-CLN-200T Thursday.
Looking forward to using this as I am on my 2nd Degritter... they are ok for 'light' use, but when you have a 'Quick, Medium & Heavy' settings but can't use the 'Heavy' because you will even more quickly prematurely wear out the transducers... plus, if you clean more than 2 or 3 records it will overheat and go into cool down. This is a machine for someone with a smaller collection or does not clean that many records often.
Also, the 1.4 liter tank needs to have water changed often as you are just bathing your records in the same dirt, chemicals, oils etc. that you removed from them. The foam 'filter' is only for collecting the larger solids.

To me, the Klaudio may be 2x the price, but you are getting 2x the machine and just the water tank/filter system alone makes it worth the difference. Plus, no over heating.

 

[howiebrou]

Will be picking up my new KL-CLN-200T Thursday.
Looking forward to using this as I am on my 2nd Degritter... they are ok for 'light' use, but when you have a 'Quick, Medium & Heavy' settings but can't use the 'Heavy' because you will even more quickly prematurely wear out the transducers... plus, if you clean more than 2 or 3 records it will overheat and go into cool down. This is a machine for someone with a smaller collection or does not clean that many records often.
Also, the 1.4 liter tank needs to have water changed often as you are just bathing your records in the same dirt, chemicals, oils etc. that you removed from them. The foam 'filter' is only for collecting the larger solids.

To me, the Klaudio may be 2x the price, but you are getting 2x the machine and just the water tank/filter system alone makes it worth the difference. Plus, no over heating.

I have the original Klaudio and it has worked faultlessly for years. Cleaning 50Lps at one go is no problem either.

 

[tima]

Will be picking up my new KL-CLN-200T Thursday.
Looking forward to using this as I am on my 2nd Degritter... they are ok for 'light' use, but when you have a 'Quick, Medium & Heavy' settings but can't use the 'Heavy' because you will even more quickly prematurely wear out the transducers... plus, if you clean more than 2 or 3 records it will overheat and go into cool down. This is a machine for someone with a smaller collection or does not clean that many records often.
Also, the 1.4 liter tank needs to have water changed often as you are just bathing your records in the same dirt, chemicals, oils etc. that you removed from them. The foam 'filter' is only for collecting the larger solids.

To me, the Klaudio may be 2x the price, but you are getting 2x the machine and just the water tank/filter system alone makes it worth the difference. Plus, no over heating.

Thanks for the end-user report on the Degritter.

KLaudio has shown innovation with the development of their external water tank and filtering systems. If their unit allowed use of a surfactant it could be state-of-the-art among today's off-the-shelf desktop RCMs.

I have the original Klaudio and it has worked faultlessly for years. Cleaning 50Lps at one go is no problem either.

A nice testimonial, Howie -- speaks well for the brand. Do you have some sense how long it takes you to clean a single LP?

 

[mtakeda]

I do not trust this company. They deserted me by quit servicing abruptly. I question their business moral.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I had an extremely positive repair experience with KL Audio.

Approximately four years ago I purchased the then-last machine in inventory from Acoustic Sounds. I kept it in storage for four years.

Four years after purchase I finally unboxed it, and it was dead in opening. Tim of KL Audio, long after the warranty expired, said I should send the machine to the factory. It was repaired at no cost and returned to me.

It has worked perfectly since I received it back.