Koetsu

[new2Krell]

That's the one! A long time ago for me now. How time flies. If I knew then what I know now (I didn't install my Black until after 2000), I would defintely have bought more, and / or other variants too
Apologies if this has been raised somewhere in the pages I haven't yet read, is there a consesnsus as the whether a valve or ss phono stage is preferred with Koetsus? It will probably be a split, but I have only ever used a valve phono stage and would be interested in hearing other users views and why their preference. If it has already been discussed, maybe someone can point me to the page?

 

[jadis]

That's the one! A long time ago for me now. How time flies. If I knew then what I know now (I didn't install my Black until after 2000), I would defintely have bought more, and / or other variants too
Apologies if this has been raised somewhere in the pages I haven't yet read, is there a consesnsus as the whether a valve or ss phono stage is preferred with Koetsus? It will probably be a split, but I have only ever used a valve phono stage and would be interested in hearing other users views and why their preference. If it has already been discussed, maybe someone can point me to the page?

I believe we have not had much discussion on phono stages here. I personally prefer tubes and have always used them, ARC, Eastern Electric Minimax, and now VAC Signature SE. Some like SUT, very much a case of preference.

 

[new2Krell]

Unfortunately, Koetsu is not simple. Means you cannot walk from a cheaper Koetsu to a more expensive Koetsu in the same environment and expect a "better" sound.

You just will get a "different" sound, you may like, you may like not.

I appreciate this was posted quite a while back, but being new here and now reading through the posts from the beginning, just adding a comment here as this describes very well my experience with just about anything to do with this great hobby. Limited experience with Koetsu (only ever owned a Black), but like most associated components, it is all about getting each one working at it's best with the others, "in the chain" (personal experience). It doesn't matter whether arm/cartridge/tt, valve combinations, different SUTs, or cables.
Over the years I have tried many different combinations, and to get the best out of any one item I have found it may require changing something else. Simply swapping an item out with another seldom returns the best results.
One thing that is certain, I have never achieved the experience I have from my Black with any other cartridge I have owned. That says something (to me) about a Koetsu's general qualities and why I am a fan.

 

[jadis]

I appreciate this was posted quite a while back, but being new here and now reading through the posts from the beginning, just adding a comment here as this describes very well my experience with just about anything to do with this great hobby. Limited experience with Koetsu (only ever owned a Black), but like most associated components, it is all about getting each one working at it's best with the others, "in the chain" (personal experience). It doesn't matter whether arm/cartridge/tt, valve combinations, different SUTs, or cables.
Over the years I have tried many different combinations, and to get the best out of any one item I have found it may require changing something else. Simply swapping an item out with another seldom returns the best results.
One thing that is certain, I have never achieved the experience I have from my Black with any other cartridge I have owned. That says something (to me) about a Koetsu's general qualities and why I am a fan.

The Black may be the entry level of Koetsu but it is far and away the most satisfying cartridge I have used compared with the previous brands I bought before it.

 

[dan31]

The Black Goldline is a sweet cartridge. I have put it but back into my system for the last few months.

 

[new2Krell]

The Black may be the entry level of Koetsu but it is far and away the most satisfying cartridge I have used compared with the previous brands I bought before it.

Definitely on the same page here

 

[new2Krell]

The Black Goldline is a sweet cartridge. I have put it but back into my system for the last few months.

It is simply a great performer. Mine has just been re-installed too. I think listening to other carts in between brings home just how satisfying the Black is when back in the system.
Since mine was last in use, I have moved from Ortofon T5's to the Verto and also have a different pre-amp. In addition, I have switched from Mullard ECC83's to Brimar 6057's. The Koetsu traits are still very much there but it does sound different, as I think anyone would expect. A little "tighter" at the bottom end and vocals have become even more "realistic" - Karen Carpenter's voice at the start of "Rainly Days and Mondays" is ... WOW! Using an AT OC9 ML/II prior to re--installation, it's a great cartridge and does many things well but there is so much more realism with the Black.

 

[DasguteOhr]

The Black Goldline is a sweet cartridge. I have put it but back into my system for the last few months.

plays well above the price tag like ortofon venice, dynavector xx II Mk 2, zyx bloom and vpi zephyr. Great cart

 

[jadis]

Just to add about the usefulness of the 'line' in front of the Black gold line body. It serves as a guide to check for cantilever skewing left or right. In its absence, the 'cup' below can be used as reference to see if the cantilever is tracking straight down and at the middle point of the cup.

 

[Johan K]

Just to add about the usefulness of the 'line' in front of the Black gold line body. It serves as a guide to check for cantilever skewing left or right. In its absence, the 'cup' below can be used as reference to see if the cantilever is tracking straight down and at the middle point of the cup.

It is however VERY hard to see the cantilever and to align a Koetsu cartridge even with best optical tools. One has to be very very patient to get every angle perfect. But once manage, it’s a cheer joy.

/ Jk

 

[DasguteOhr]

It is however VERY hard to see the cantilever and to align a Koetsu cartridge even with best optical tools. One has to be very very patient to get every angle perfect. But once manage, it’s a cheer joy.

/ Jk

Use arc protractor program , print out that template easier to get a perfect result.zoom in

Arc protractor generator | AlignmentProtractor.com

Print or download a free custom arc protractor for accurate phono cartridge alignment. Reduce distortion with proper turntable setup!

alignmentprotractor.com

 

[Johan K]

Use arc protractor program , print out that template easier to get a perfect result.zoom in

Arc protractor generator | AlignmentProtractor.com

Print or download a free custom arc protractor for accurate phono cartridge alignment. Reduce distortion with proper turntable setup!

alignmentprotractor.com

View attachment 109394

Just to clearify:

Well, it is not that I not have an alignment tool.. I use the WallyTractor from WallyTools, and it works 100% every time… though.. it is STILL very very hard to see the cantilever on Koetsu cartridges because of the position of the cantilever, completely hidden under the body of the cartridge. So even with the best magnifying glasses, or even with a microscope it is quite hard to get the Koetsu’s in the perfect alignment position.
In comparison: It is much more easy to align, for example a Lyra cartridge where you can see the cantilever at all time without turning your eyeballs into a jelly periscope, if you know what I mean.. lol.. .

But in the end… It is not like it can’t be done.. One has just to be much more meticulous, and more patient with a cartridge with ”hidden” cantilevers, than with cartridges with open or visible cantilevers.

Hope this explained better what I first meant.

/ Jk

 

[jadis]

Just to clearify:

Well, it is not that I not have an alignment tool.. I use the WallyTractor from WallyTools, and it works 100% every time… though.. it is STILL very very hard to see the cantilever on Koetsu cartridges because of the position of the cantilever, completely hidden under the body of the cartridge. So even with the best magnifying glasses, or even with a microscope it is quite hard to get the Koetsu’s in the perfect alignment position.
In comparison: It is much more easy to align, for example a Lyra cartridge where you can see the cantilever at all time without turning your eyeballs into a jelly periscope, if you know what I mean.. lol.. .

But in the end… It is not like it can’t be done.. One has just to be much more meticulous, and more patient with a cartridge with ”hidden” cantilevers, than with cartridges with open or visible cantilevers.

Hope this explained better what I first meant.

/ Jk

I understand exactly what you mean. For those who come from no-body cartridges, it will take some time due to what you mentioned - hidden cantilever. And the gap to find the stylus is very small. The saving grace with Koetsu is that the sides of the body can be used to align with the grid in the protractor. I wonder how the Lyra is aligned with the grid lines without a body.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Just to clearify:

Well, it is not that I not have an alignment tool.. I use the WallyTractor from WallyTools, and it works 100% every time… though.. it is STILL very very hard to see the cantilever on Koetsu cartridges because of the position of the cantilever, completely hidden under the body of the cartridge. So even with the best magnifying glasses, or even with a microscope it is quite hard to get the Koetsu’s in the perfect alignment position.
In comparison: It is much more easy to align, for example a Lyra cartridge where you can see the cantilever at all time without turning your eyeballs into a jelly periscope, if you know what I mean.. lol.. .

But in the end… It is not like it can’t be done.. One has just to be much more meticulous, and more patient with a cartridge with ”hidden” cantilevers, than with cartridges with open or visible cantilevers.

Hope this explained better what I first meant.

/ Jk

all good, thanks for the explanation. For such cases I use a small side mirror. The only carts that are really difficult to adjust are old Decca or Ikeda carts without a cantilever. The main thing is that you have fun listening to the cartridge it doesn't matter how you get the result. many roads lead to rome.

 

[jadis]

The bottom cup as a center guide for the cantilever tracking straight down.

 

[mtemur]

it is STILL very very hard to see the cantilever on Koetsu cartridges because of the position of the cantilever, completely hidden under the body of the cartridge. So even with the best magnifying glasses, or even with a microscope it is quite hard to get the Koetsu’s in the perfect alignment position.

Same goes for Kondo cartridge. I don’t know why they insist complicating alignment procedure.

 

[mtemur]

Use arc protractor program , print out that template easier to get a perfect result.zoom in

Arc protractor generator | AlignmentProtractor.com

Print or download a free custom arc protractor for accurate phono cartridge alignment. Reduce distortion with proper turntable setup!

alignmentprotractor.com

I know it’s a very good program and there is a web page alternative but precise printing is impossible. I know you’ll say your print outs are very precise but they’re not. Print outs are scaled wrongly even if you don’t use a scaling constant which you should. It’s a limitation of printing machines. BTW I’m talking about big, industrial, 3-4 meters long printers from Xerox, Oki etc home printers are much worse.

Even a pressed, two point paper protractor is more precise.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I know it’s a very good program and there is a web page alternative but precise printing is impossible. I know you’ll say my print outs are very precise but they’re not. Print outs are scaled wrongly even if you don’t use a scaling constant which you should. It’s a limitation of printing machines. BTW I’m talking about big, industrial, 3-4 meters long printers from Xerox, Oki etc home printers are much worse.

Even a pressed, two point paper protractor is more precise.

you must measure the dimensions on the template with a ruler. if necessary adjust the printer correction factor exsample not 100% - maybe 102%. it can sometimes take 2-3 attempts until it is the perfect size. then its work perfect. I am very satisfied with the result, I have adjusted more than ten different tonearms.

 

[mtemur]

you must measure the dimensions on the template with a ruler. if necessary adjust the printer correction factor exsample not 100% - maybe 102%. it can sometimes take 2-3 attempts until it is the perfect size. then its work perfect. I am very satisfied with the result, I have adjusted more than ten different tonearms.View attachment 109405

I tried more than 50 attempts over 2 months 3 years ago. They were all in a logical and improved way but no success. I deliberately mentioned industrial printers in my prior post to indicate how far I’ve gone and to eliminate getting responses like this. Of course I’ve tried basic solutions you’ve mentioned but please believe me it’s impossible cause printers (in general) are not made for this kind of precision.

 

[mulveling]

I too have faced challenge of aligning a Koetsu with (usually) the very tiny bit of stylus and cantilever you can see past the body. Even the SMARTractor doesn't help much here. The MintLP's markings had the absolute best visibility for aligning Koetsus. But alas, I broke mine and I'm not sure he makes them anymore.

When I'm lazy I'll just use the body to aid alignment if the cantilever is square to it. Quite frankly the results I get with GEODisk are usually just as good as the SMARTractor.