Koetsu

[mulveling]

Like this one?

View attachment 109459

See to the right past the metal cantilever stub? that inner metal loop is the very bottom piece of the yoke. My otherwise pristine Coralstone Diamond actually shows some fuzzy debris on it

Don't focus on trying to clean it directly -- forget I said that. It is too hard for regular access by us hobbyists. But do clean all the way up the cantilever that you can; this will probably help keep the front pole a bit cleaner. On a Benz (and many other designs) it is easy to clean directly (though most owners do NOT!).

 

[jadis]

View attachment 109460
See to the right past the metal cantilever stub? that inner metal loop is the very bottom piece of the yoke. My otherwise pristine Coralstone actually shows some fuzzy debris on it

Don't focus on trying to clean it directly -- forget I said that. It is too hard for regular access by us hobbyists. But do clean all the way up the cantilever that you can; this will probably help keep the front pole a bit cleaner. On a Benz (and many other designs) it is easy to clean directly (though most owners do NOT!).

Copy, Mike. That area is really deep. Will just focus on what we can reach easily.

 

[jadis]

Not a pretty brush anyone but I trimmed it so I can use use thinner part without hitting the cantilever when I brush the upper plate.

 

[jadis]

Mike, I think these are the scenarios that you talked about. But these units are bound for rebuilding anyway. As you said, don't touch that area anymore. Just make the plate clean.

 

[new2Krell]

Not a pretty brush anyone but I trimmed it so I can use use thinner part without hitting the cantilever when I brush the upper plate.

I have and use identical brushes, though I haven't trimmed mine. As the bristles are nicely splayed, I just use the edge of the brush and go down both sides.
But, here's a question for you all..... I use a compressed air "Power Cleaner, Dust and Particle Remover" on telescope optics. The range of uses states, in addition to optics: computer equipment, audio equipment, medical and laboratory equipment. The air flow can be regulated by a trigger and I have considered using it to remove dust particles from cartridges. The plus would be that you don't actually touch any part of the cartridge, but I have always refrained from it's use (and probably always will) for fear of blasting particles to inaccessible places inside the body. Interested to hear other views on potential suitability (or not) for the job.

 

[new2Krell]

Mike, I think these are the scenarios that you talked about. But these units are bound for rebuilding anyway. As you said, don't touch that area anymore. Just make the plate clean.

View attachment 109469View attachment 109470

Crikey! Look like there is an awfull lot of "grunge" inside these things anyway - maybe my previous question is irrelevant!

 

[DasguteOhr]

Mike, I think these are the scenarios that you talked about. But these units are bound for rebuilding anyway. As you said, don't touch that area anymore. Just make the plate clean.

View attachment 109469View attachment 109470

the best way to get rid of the iron filings is with fine tweezers (magnetize with a magnet). the dirt with kneadcleaner for typewriters. form a teardrop shape and gently rub the pointed side over needle cantelever ,coils and other parts. the dirt sticks to the knead. goes very well use a magnifying glass, be careful with the coil wire

https://www.amazon.de/L%C3%A4ufer-69248-Typutz-Typenreiniger-Dose/dp/B000TK8WP6

 

[jadis]

I have and use identical brushes, though I haven't trimmed mine. As the bristles are nicely splayed, I just use the edge of the brush and go down both sides.
But, here's a question for you all..... I use a compressed air "Power Cleaner, Dust and Particle Remover" on telescope optics. The range of uses states, in addition to optics: computer equipment, audio equipment, medical and laboratory equipment. The air flow can be regulated by a trigger and I have considered using it to remove dust particles from cartridges. The plus would be that you don't actually touch any part of the cartridge, but I have always refrained from it's use (and probably always will) for fear of blasting particles to inaccessible places inside the body. Interested to hear other views on potential suitability (or not) for the job.

I will refrain from using products that 'blow' into a gadget. I imagine the dust will all the more 'flow inside' that gaping hole toward the yoke. The would be speeding up it's dust accumulation. I think the only viable way is this kind of stylus brush that we have.

 

[jadis]

Crikey! Look like there is an awfull lot of "grunge" inside these things anyway - maybe my previous question is irrelevant!

Yes. Mostly to show what long long term dust accumulation in that part of the cantilever will become. As Mike said, it is a part that attracts dust.

 

[mtemur]

Cartridges have strong magnets. Be very careful to use any metal objects around them otherwise you can rip of cantilever. Ask me how I know.

 

[jadis]

How bout this? Is this dirt or corrosion on the cantilever? And how to remove it ? I read the boron is not really a corrosive metal.

 

[new2Krell]

How bout this? Is this dirt or corrosion on the cantilever? And how to remove it ? I read the boron is not really a corrosive metal.

View attachment 109471

Wow, this along with other pics are a bit of a horror story! In the 40+ years I have been into this hobby, I am pleased to say that none of mine have ended up like this (can't say about the internals as I have never been inside one). As I have only ever used brushes, I will continue to do so as this appears to have worked for me.
A good question Phil! I would hope it's not corrosion as that would be a more serious issue, a build up of dirt would be an easier / simpler issue to deal with, I would imagine.
Was this cartridge still being used?

 

[jadis]

Wow, this along with other pics are a bit of a horror story! In the 40+ years I have been into this hobby, I am pleased to say that none of mine have ended up like this (can't say about the internals as I have never been inside one). As I have only ever used brushes, I will continue to do so as this appears to have worked for me.
A good question Phil! I would hope it's not corrosion as that would be a more serious issue, a build up of dirt would be an easier / simpler issue to deal with, I would imagine.
Was this cartridge still being used?

It was sent by a customer and ultimately he sold it and bought a new one. It was still playable.

 

[DasguteOhr]

How bout this? Is this dirt or corrosion on the cantilever? And how to remove it ? I read the boron is not really a corrosive metal.

View attachment 109471

Actually, the alloy often consists of (titanium, boron, carbon) I can't say whether it can rust. I think the best way to clean is with interdental brushes and lukewarm water. do not use aggressive cleaning agents. fasten the pickup to the board when cleaning or when removing the iron filings, otherwise there is a high probability of an accident.

 

[new2Krell]

How bout this? Is this dirt or corrosion on the cantilever? And how to remove it ? I read the boron is not really a corrosive metal.

View attachment 109471

I have always believed Boron to be a metal, but after doing some research apprently it isn't really, although it does have some metal characteristics. A term I came across was "metaloid" (describes "metal like" qualities of only a few elements (7) in the periodic table) which apperently sit between between metals and non-metals (I am not a scientist!)
As such, would that mean the "growth" on the cantilever is more likely to be accumulated dirt rather than corrosion?

 

[new2Krell]

DasguteOhr - you make me feel like I don't look after my cartridges well enough!

 

[jadis]

I have always believed Boron to be a metal, but after doing some research apprently it isn't really, although it does have some metal characteristics. A term I came across was "metaloid" (describes "metal like" qualities of only a few elements (7) in the periodic table) which apperently sit between between metals and non-metals (I am not a scientist!)
As such, would that mean the "growth" on the cantilever is more likely to be accumulated dirt rather than corrosion?

I think so. A local expert told me it is accumulation of dust, aided by humidity, and AC being turned on and off. He's seen quite a few of these and he said a simple solution is just to brush it off in a downward direction, toward the stylus, with the liquid AT 607 with brush. As always, caveat emptor. I'm only willing to try it on a broken Koetsu.

I feel the suggestion of Das using lukewarm water is good idea.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I have always believed Boron to be a metal, but after doing some research apprently it isn't really, although it does have some metal characteristics. A term I came across was "metaloid" (describes "metal like" qualities of only a few elements (7) in the periodic table) which apperently sit between between metals and non-metals (I am not a scientist!)
As such, would that mean the "growth" on the cantilever is more likely to be accumulated dirt rather than corrosion?

boron is a powder, the second hardest material after diamonds. example borcarbid drill. the stiffness is excellent for cantilever because the resonance frequency is well above the audible limit (60-70khz) compared to aluminum cantilever 10-20khz. that's why some pickups have a rise to treble. example 2db more db. be happy with koetsu some models can be opened carefully, with other manufacturers it is impossible to open without destroying the housing. then you can only clean from the outside.

 

[mulveling]

I've seen encrusting on boron, and always assumed it was not a chemical reaction of the boron itself, but rather too much detritus allowed to settle and harden over time atop the boron. Prevention requires rigorous & consistent dry brushing up & down the cantilever as we've been describing. Once any amount of crust has been allowed to solidify it's extremely HARD to get off, perhaps even impossible without professional help. I've got a previously owned RSP in my collection that shows a just a tiny bit of crusting atop the boron. I can't completely knock it off with just dry brushing, BUT the crust stopped growing since I've had it. None of the cartridges I've had since new have been allowed to accumulate any crust.

The problem with the front pole plate is it's much more likely to become chemically reactive with the debris "beard" (because it's ferrous which oxidizes like crazy). Over time that results in the very scary pics we saw Every bit of a proper cleanliness regimen (cleaning the stylus, cantilever, vinyl, good air filtration etc) helps limit or prevent this.

This is why I also hate the "dip only" stylus cleaning methods (Onzow, DS Audio gel, Blu-Tak etc). It's not enough cleaning power to polish the diamond AND it can fool audiophiles into thinking they can neglect cleaning the other cartridge parts. A dry brush MUST be used regularly in conjunction with another method (of choice) to polish the stylus. I like Magic Eraser for polishing the stylus but I don't "just" dip it either (not for everyone to rotationally scrub with it like I do)

 

[DasguteOhr]

I've seen encrusting on boron, and always assumed it was not a chemical reaction of the boron itself, but rather too much detritus allowed to settle and harden over time atop the boron. Prevention requires rigorous & consistent dry brushing up & down the cantilever as we've been describing. Once any amount of crust has been allowed to solidify it's extremely HARD to get off, perhaps even impossible without professional help. I've got a previously owned RSP in my collection that shows a just a tiny bit of crusting atop the boron. I can't completely knock it off with just dry brushing, BUT the crust stopped growing since I've had it. None of the cartridges I've had since new have been allowed to accumulate any crust.

The problem with the front pole plate is it's much more likely to become chemically reactive with the debris "beard" (because it's ferrous which oxidizes like crazy). Over time that results in the very scary pics we saw Every bit of a proper cleanliness regimen (cleaning the stylus, cantilever, vinyl, good air filtration etc) helps limit or prevent this.

This is why I also hate the "dip only" stylus cleaning methods (Onzow, DS Audio gel, Blu-Tak etc). It's not enough cleaning power to polish the diamond AND it can fool audiophiles into thinking they can neglect cleaning the other cartridge parts. A dry brush MUST be used regularly in conjunction with another method (of choice) to polish the stylus. I like Magic Eraser for polishing the stylus but I don't "just" dip it either (not for everyone to rotationally scrub with it like I do)

i also believe in house dust and residual moisture in the grooves of freshly washed lps. at some point it is so much that it becomes crusty and rock hard. maybe a splash of lp cleaner to the lukewarm water. with pure alcohol( isopranol) I would be careful with older cartridges as far as the glue on the diamond is concerned.