Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC

[wisnon]

This is still confusing. Are you saying there are 3 variations of the PAC and the difference is which anode tube is used? I don't think you are saying that but I don't understand "there are 3 types of Noval adapters pertaining to: 5687, 6922 and ECC81". Are you saying that there are 3 different Noval adapters in the universe?

How about this. The tube that I currently use in the Pac is a 6N6P. Are there any tubes can just be dropped in and replace the 6N6P (without any adapter). If not, which ones can be used with the appropriate adapter?

to your last question, u can only use 6n30 as drop in. to use the eligible tubes, u will need ecc81 to 6922 adapter, Ecc81 to 6922 adapter or 5687 to 6922 adapter. Stock is 6N^P which is 6922 pinout.

Edit I gave the wrong order for adaptation before. Sorry.

 

[wisnon]

I’m sorry but the tube selection issue for the Horizon is still confusing to me. I’m seeing some conversation regarding Pacific and anode choices and then discussion of Horizon tubes. Maybe my decoder ring is broken, but I’d like to ask a few questions to gain clarity.

For the Horizon, this is the tube configuration as I understand it:

View attachment 86936

#1 is the recti- No adapters needed, correct? If so, no issues here. Many choices available

# 4-7. These are for KT88/KT-170/KT-150/KT66/KT77/EL34 or equivalents. No adapters needed for any of these, correct?. If so, no issues here.

# 2-3. These are driver tubes, 6SN7’s or equivalent (PSvane tennis ball/ Shuguang Treasure cv181-z/ Melz 1578 (no adapters needed, correct?)

Now, if you want to use 6900, 5687, 7119 or 6922/6DJ8, then it seems you need adapters, right? My confusion is which adapter for what tube? An ECC82 is not a 6922, in fact it is nothing like it. A 6922 is an ECC88 or as the Americans call them E88CC, and ECC88 has no centre tap in the heaters as they are wired in parallel. That means pin 9 is a screen and the heater voltage is 6.3v only. An ECC82 or 12AU7 has series heaters between pins 4&5 with pin 9 as a centre tap.

Let’s be very clear and list what adapter is needed for which tube. Furthermore, if you’re using tube adapters, it may be wise to spend a few dollars more to get high quality adapters (such as those made of Teflon and available from Woo Audio) https://wooaudio.com/accessories/various-tube-adapters

So can someone please tell me, which specific Woo adapter (from their web site selection) I will need for each of the following tubes that are available to me:

• 6900
• 5687
• 7119
• 6922
• 12AU7

Thanks in advance
Marty

I will get to horizon later, ok?

 

[dminches]

to your last question, u can only use 6n30 as drop in. to use the eligible tubes, u will need 6922 to ecc81 adapter or 5687 to ecc81 adapter

Does this mean I can one of my fancy Reflektor 6H30 DRs? Are they the same as 6N30s? I think so.

 

[marty]

I will get to horizon later, ok?

I ain't goin' anywhere waiting for some fat guy in a red suit to come down my chimney....

 

[2ndLiner]

For a tube rolling neophyte this is a tad confusing. I’m heading back to the simplicity of SS…kidding!

 

[Golum]

Things got confusing out of nowhere mixing Pac and Horizon…while things are quite easy

 

[Steve williams]

I’m sorry but the tube selection issue for the Horizon is still confusing to me. I’m seeing some conversation regarding Pacific and anode choices and then discussion of Horizon tubes. Maybe my decoder ring is broken, but I’d like to ask a few questions to gain clarity.

For the Horizon, this is the tube configuration as I understand it:

View attachment 86936

#1 is the recti- No adapters needed, correct? If so, no issues here. Many choices available

# 4-7. These are for KT88/KT-170/KT-150/KT66/KT77/EL34 or equivalents. No adapters needed for any of these, correct?. If so, no issues here.

# 2-3. These are driver tubes, 6SN7’s or equivalent (PSvane tennis ball/ Shuguang Treasure cv181-z/ Melz 1578 (no adapters needed, correct?)

Now, if you want to use 6900, 5687, 7119 or 6922/6DJ8, then it seems you need adapters, right? My confusion is which adapter for what tube? An ECC82 is not a 6922, in fact it is nothing like it. A 6922 is an ECC88 or as the Americans call them E88CC, and ECC88 has no centre tap in the heaters as they are wired in parallel. That means pin 9 is a screen and the heater voltage is 6.3v only. An ECC82 or 12AU7 has series heaters between pins 4&5 with pin 9 as a centre tap. (I think, but I may be wrong.)

Let’s be very clear and list what adapter is needed for which tube. Furthermore, if you’re using tube adapters, it may be wise to spend a few dollars more to get high quality adapters (such as those made of Teflon and available from Woo Audio) https://wooaudio.com/accessories/various-tube-adapters

So can someone please tell me, which specific Woo adapter (from their web site selection) I will need for each of the following tubes that are available to me:

• 6900
• 5687
• 7119
• 6922
• 12AU7

Thanks in advance
Marty

I would merely ask Lukasz. He supplies adapters with the tubes that come with the Horizon. He told me he is also bringing a suitcase full of tubes and adapters. I asked him if he uses Woo. I haven't heard back yet

 

[wisnon]

Now to Horizon.

First off Horizon with the worst possible tubes is going to beat Pac in Yoda's opinion. Rolling in Horizon is a different matter than the Dacs before, it's MORE about tube synergies. As he said a Top tube will always sound good no matter the tubes complementing it, but the quest for the rollers will be the "MAGICAL", not just very good to excellent. Stock tube config will already be in the magic range, Yoda will assure that by testing in advance.

The issue will be tube availability. This is NOT like even 3 years ago. Vintage tubes are very scare and even new production tube supply is not guaranteed like before, given the supply chain mess the world is in. Fortunately, Yoda has stockpiled parts and tubes and I imagine he is holding BIG inventory capital tied up in advance. This is why I know that this must be a winning sound. I don't think he ever went so capital intensive into a new launch. As he said, production will be 400 in total and when they are gone, that will be it.

So, the tube layout is (a) 4 power tubes as its balanced and one tube per phase (EL34, KT66/77/88/120/150, etc), (b) a pair of output tubes (6SN7 = vintage Sylvania, new Shuguang blue balls/ST shape gold base/ST shape RED base [best of the new?]), ne JJ 6SN7, 6H8s or C [very very good], metal base Soviet Melz 6SN7-equiv, AND 6900 and VT99 with adapters. Finally (c) are the known 5V rectifiers.

Lukasz thinks they are ALL good and are magical in the right combinations which he will assure when delivering the Dac. It will simply NOT be possible to pick stock tubes in advance as the supply chain for manufactures is basically "catch as catch can". Even new production tubes will occasionally disappear for 6 months and when they come back, they have to be re-evaluated to see if they are still of the same calibre. I know he will have all kinds of combination of tubes over time and even some adapters for the tubes that he happens to get which require that. Dedicated rollers will be best advised to go seek out their vintage "heart desires" asap online as the likes of 6900 are pretty scarce and you need a matched pair. He already explained why he likes the blue balls for the 6SN7 slot (tube size).

Final point is that he surmises that the way to make the output pair shine is to have the most powerful quad of anode tubes, eg KT150. The more grunt work the anode tubes take, the more unstressed the output pair and they can thus perform to their maximum potential. Obviously, this general rule does not encapsulate the full reality of tube synergies, but is a good clue to rolling direction, I suspect that rolling for the Horizon will be for those with a doctorate in tubology. LoL

 

[wisnon]

Things got confusing out of nowhere mixing Pac and Horizon…while things are quite easy

Yes, that confused me too and Yoda straightened me out. The thing is that 6900 can be used in both, but for very different purposes.

 

[wisnon]

I’m sorry but the tube selection issue for the Horizon is still confusing to me. I’m seeing some conversation regarding Pacific and anode choices and then discussion of Horizon tubes. Maybe my decoder ring is broken, but I’d like to ask a few questions to gain clarity.

For the Horizon, this is the tube configuration as I understand it:

View attachment 86936

#1 is the recti- No adapters needed, correct? If so, no issues here. Many choices available

# 4-7. These are for KT88/KT-170/KT-150/KT66/KT77/EL34 or equivalents. No adapters needed for any of these, correct?. If so, no issues here.

# 2-3. These are driver tubes, 6SN7’s or equivalent (PSvane tennis ball/ Shuguang Treasure cv181-z/ Melz 1578 (no adapters needed, correct?)

Now, if you want to use 6900, 5687, 7119 or 6922/6DJ8, then it seems you need adapters, right? My confusion is which adapter for what tube? An ECC82 is not a 6922, in fact it is nothing like it. A 6922 is an ECC88 or as the Americans call them E88CC, and ECC88 has no centre tap in the heaters as they are wired in parallel. That means pin 9 is a screen and the heater voltage is 6.3v only. An ECC82 or 12AU7 has series heaters between pins 4&5 with pin 9 as a centre tap. (I think, but I may be wrong.)

Let’s be very clear and list what adapter is needed for which tube. Furthermore, if you’re using tube adapters, it may be wise to spend a few dollars more to get high quality adapters (such as those made of Teflon and available from Woo Audio) https://wooaudio.com/accessories/various-tube-adapters

So can someone please tell me, which specific Woo adapter (from their web site selection) I will need for each of the following tubes that are available to me:

• 6900
• 5687
• 7119
• 6922
• 12AU7

Thanks in advance
Marty

OK, now to you Marty. I may have answered your question in an earlier message but it will be clearly to go point by point with your questions. I agree with your tube layout, though I call tubes 2 & 3 as output tubes.
No 1 is rectifier and no adapter needed.

Nos 4-7 are the pentodes ( 1 per phase) and no adapters needed for these standard EL and KT tubes you listed.

For Nos. 2-3, the tube socket is the 6SN7 type pinout. Thus all the new and vintage 6SN7 and 6H8 tubes should work as drop-ins and only the 6900 & VT99 tubes need adapters. If Lukasz supplies these tubes, he will of course have to supply adapters with them. I have no idea where he gets adapters from, so can't comment there. This is all for HORIZON.

For PACIFIC, I posted above for that and gave the common adaptor type to use to get to the same equiv pinout as the stock 6N6P (6922/ECC88 style). So in order to use a EH Gold 12BH7 which is a ECC81 style, you would need a ECC81 to 6922/ECC88 adapter. To use a 6900 or ECC182 tube, U need a 5687 to 6922/ECC88 adapter. That is my understanding.

 

[wisnon]

Does this mean I can one of my fancy Reflektor 6H30 DRs? Are they the same as 6N30s? I think so.

Dunno...actually I think Goran is better to answer that as I THINK they are the same as we mix English and Cyrillic characters. H and N are the "same " in Cyrillic and English or at least written the same.

 

[dminches]

Now to Horizon.

It will simply NOT be possible to pick stock tubes in advance as the supply chain for manufactures is basically "catch as catch can". Even new production tubes will occasionally disappear for 6 months and when they come back, they have to be re-evaluated to see if they are still of the same calibre.

Norman, this sounds like there won't be 1 set of stock tubes delivered with each Horizon and they may vary? That's what I am getting from your comment about new production tubes.

Or maybe Lukasz hasn't sorted this out yet.

 

[wisnon]

That depends on market availability. I know he has some stockpile which he rightly won't say, but its a zoo out there and all I know is whatever he supplies will be synergistic, so no worries. Magical is guaranteed. Most will NEVER want to roll and for good reason.

Those of us with itchy fingers will still have a ball though. Nature of the game. LoL

 

[Steve williams]

These little guys just arrived. I bought two matched sets. In fact the 4 tubes all measure as new and are in essence a matched quad set
@wisnon.....do they need an adapter for the Horizon?

 

[Steve williams]

The yellow tipped one is so designated as it was cryo treated and is a small amount of paint

What I just learned is that the tube although looking like glass is actually made of ceramic and can sustain very high temperatures

These are made by National as well as Mu. I was told that Bendix only made 300 of these tubes before they sold the machinery to Wu who also manufactured the tube for National.

I was told that a set of these tubes will outlast us all

 

[Steve williams]

measurements of each tube . They measure new

 

[wisnon]

These little guys just arrived. I bought two matched sets. In fact the 4 tubes all measure as new and are in essence a matched quad set
@wisnon.....do they need an adapter for the Horizon?

View attachment 86944View attachment 86945View attachment 86946View attachment 86947View attachment 86948

Yes, 5687 to 6SN7 adapter. Lukasz should have it. You can also check to see if WOO has it too.

 

[dminches]

The sockets in the horizon are 8 pin and for 6SN7s so they will definitely need an adapter.

 

[Zero000]

These little guys just arrived. I bought two matched sets. In fact the 4 tubes all measure as new and are in essence a matched quad set
@wisnon.....do they need an adapter for the Horizon?

View attachment 86944View attachment 86945View attachment 86946View attachment 86947View attachment 86948

What is it with this whole nipple painting thang?

I hear various stories...

Yellow nipples screw me up, though.

They are usually red on valves and in humans?

What can it possibly mean and why is only one of them painted thus?

Curious, and possibly meaningless. But does anyone have a story?

 

[Steve williams]

Yes, 5687 to 6SN7 adapter. Lukasz should have it. You can also check to see if WOO has it too.

Thank you