Nope.. Actually I got to know this tube when I was modifying my old preamp. I bought a pair for that preamp and now they are all for Pac, lol. I am not sure about the design of Pac, but it seems to me that driver tubes are probably more significant for Pac than what ppl realize tbh.
Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC
- Thread starter Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus
- Start date
They are not really driver tubes, we just call them that colloquially. They are for anode loading or something of the sort. They basically take some grunt work off the DHT so that the DHTs are never stressed, so they are able to deliver full impact at any time. Lukasz gave me the story years ago but I dont recall the details.
As for Horizon, i know about it for like 3 years now....back when it had a different code name, LoL. It has evolved a bit but seems only for the better and it was already ridiculously good as a prototype. Indeed, if not for CV19, I would have a heard an early prototype long ago. I kept asking about it for a while and was told it was coming along slowly but carefully and CV19 and supply chain issue meant delays, as well as certain parts shortages that needed addressing. Good news is that Yoda made the investment to stockpile critical parts so that he is pretty independent of supply constraints to critical parts...must have cost him a bundle in tied up inventory earmarked funds. The fact that he did this tells me he KNOWS he has a winner on his hands.
I look fwd to hearing this when he makes it here next time. Hopefully Golum and I can convince him to make a ski trip here BEFORE Feb. LoL. CH is pretty tight in lockdown EXCEPT for the SKI resorts who have a VERY powerful lobby. Heheheh
As for Horizon, i know about it for like 3 years now....back when it had a different code name, LoL. It has evolved a bit but seems only for the better and it was already ridiculously good as a prototype. Indeed, if not for CV19, I would have a heard an early prototype long ago. I kept asking about it for a while and was told it was coming along slowly but carefully and CV19 and supply chain issue meant delays, as well as certain parts shortages that needed addressing. Good news is that Yoda made the investment to stockpile critical parts so that he is pretty independent of supply constraints to critical parts...must have cost him a bundle in tied up inventory earmarked funds. The fact that he did this tells me he KNOWS he has a winner on his hands.
I look fwd to hearing this when he makes it here next time. Hopefully Golum and I can convince him to make a ski trip here BEFORE Feb. LoL. CH is pretty tight in lockdown EXCEPT for the SKI resorts who have a VERY powerful lobby. Heheheh
It's ok, sorry to confuse you guys. I said "driver tube" because I felt maybe its easy for someone to understand. And yes, you would like to use 6900 to replace 6n6p rather than DHT tubes.
I've already heard one or two, I like this one more. what doesn’t mean the lampizator is bad, it’s great sounding gear.
Nem dac you should listen to it and judge for yourself,my next device is what I'll buy, whether I actually didn't want to buy anything more
We adopted for the Horizon such a genius tube scheme that will work like a charm with tubes costing $5. This will REALLY surprise you. The all time giant killer el cheapo tube is 6N1P-EB from Soviet era (somewhat equivalent to ECC82 / 12AU7) and then you only need 4 cheapest EL34 you can find for S11 apiece. On the other extreme, 6900 as the input tube with Riccardo Kron KR-KT150 or Tung Sol KT170 or GEC KT66 or the cheaper giant killer Genalex KT77. The difference between the cheapest kit and the most expensive kit is so small, in my opinion not worth the $$$ but your mileage may vary.Looking forward to the Horizon order getting built.
Sounds like older/collector tubes maybe the best for the Horizon. On one hand, very exciting, on other, if they are scarce, a bit concerning that they’ll just be gobbled up, even in bulk by a few buyers. Especially looking out 2-3 years.
Is there any more information on readily available tubes for the Horizon and how they perform in comparison to less available/boutique tubes? I believe Lukasz played a key role in developing the RK KR 242s. Any plans for an equivalent Lukasz special for the Horizon?
Just curious as I am relatively new to tubes and ideally find tubes, set and forget, as worked out w the Pacific. i know that might be blasphemous to the rollers...
We will install this week the AudioNec Evo2 speakers, the ultimate electron microscope to the recording, and we may be better equipped to differentiate between various tube sets.
In my experience so far the single most important factor in the 6SN7 sound quality is the use of large glass (like that tennis ball) to eliminate the touch from the glass bottle to the tube structure. That makes them so special. The MICA supports touching glass are great for durability but colors the midrange (99,9 % of other octals). In other words yes, the blue ball is Chinese, yes it comes from quite ugly Psvane brand, yes it looks cheap and ridiculous, yes it is rather funny and vulgar - but STILL it outperforms all my 6SN7s in a blind test. Go figure.
the 6900 is a Space Age version of ECC182 which is pinned like 5687 and with the adapter called 5687- to - 6922 or Ecc88 you can install ECC182 or 7119 or better 6900 in the PAC anode loading spot.
Tampa not an option as have to be in Salt Lake City on those days.
But good to know I can stop by your place at Warszawianka from mid January…
Even the Chinese gold base 6sn7 that we had in the demo B3 Dac. That was one sweet tube. Happy Holidays!!!!
I think I should have 6922 and ECC88 on hand. Maybe even one EC182
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
you can hear it at my house with Lukasz and Fred on Feb 12-13 . Its a short flight from Salt Lake
OK, Just heard from Yoda. I was a bit mixed up. here is the juice. For Pac (anode loading), there are 3 types of Noval adapters pertaining to: 5687, 6922 and ECC81. These tubes can NOT be used, but there are tubes that have identical pinouts that can. For the first (5687) U can use ECC182 (US version is 7119)and 6900. For type 2, you can use 12BH7 (best is EH Gold). For type 3 use the Soviets, ie 6N6P or 6N30.
I will deal with the tube discussion for Horizon in a follow up message.
This is still confusing. Are you saying there are 3 variations of the PAC and the difference is which anode tube is used? I don't think you are saying that but I don't understand "there are 3 types of Noval adapters pertaining to: 5687, 6922 and ECC81". Are you saying that there are 3 different Noval adapters in the universe?
How about this. The tube that I currently use in the Pac is a 6N6P. Are there any tubes can just be dropped in and replace the 6N6P (without any adapter). If not, which ones can be used with the appropriate adapter?
I’m sorry but the tube selection issue for the Horizon is still confusing to me. I’m seeing some conversation regarding Pacific and anode choices and then discussion of Horizon tubes. Maybe my decoder ring is broken, but I’d like to ask a few questions to gain clarity.
For the Horizon, this is the tube configuration as I understand it:
#1 is the recti- No adapters needed, correct? If so, no issues here. Many choices available
# 4-7. These are for KT88/KT-170/KT-150/KT66/KT77/EL34 or equivalents. No adapters needed for any of these, correct?. If so, no issues here.
# 2-3. These are driver tubes, 6SN7’s or equivalent (PSvane tennis ball/ Shuguang Treasure cv181-z/ Melz 1578 (no adapters needed, correct?)
Now, if you want to use 6900, 5687, 7119 or 6922/6DJ8, then it seems you need adapters, right? My confusion is which adapter for what tube? An ECC82 is not a 6922, in fact it is nothing like it. A 6922 is an ECC88 or as the Americans call them E88CC, and ECC88 has no centre tap in the heaters as they are wired in parallel. That means pin 9 is a screen and the heater voltage is 6.3v only. An ECC82 or 12AU7 has series heaters between pins 4&5 with pin 9 as a centre tap. (I think, but I may be wrong.)
Let’s be very clear and list what adapter is needed for which tube. Furthermore, if you’re using tube adapters, it may be wise to spend a few dollars more to get high quality adapters (such as those made of Teflon and available from Woo Audio) https://wooaudio.com/accessories/various-tube-adapters
So can someone please tell me, which specific Woo adapter (from their web site selection) I will need for each of the following tubes that are available to me:
Marty
For the Horizon, this is the tube configuration as I understand it:
#1 is the recti- No adapters needed, correct? If so, no issues here. Many choices available
# 4-7. These are for KT88/KT-170/KT-150/KT66/KT77/EL34 or equivalents. No adapters needed for any of these, correct?. If so, no issues here.
# 2-3. These are driver tubes, 6SN7’s or equivalent (PSvane tennis ball/ Shuguang Treasure cv181-z/ Melz 1578 (no adapters needed, correct?)
Now, if you want to use 6900, 5687, 7119 or 6922/6DJ8, then it seems you need adapters, right? My confusion is which adapter for what tube? An ECC82 is not a 6922, in fact it is nothing like it. A 6922 is an ECC88 or as the Americans call them E88CC, and ECC88 has no centre tap in the heaters as they are wired in parallel. That means pin 9 is a screen and the heater voltage is 6.3v only. An ECC82 or 12AU7 has series heaters between pins 4&5 with pin 9 as a centre tap. (I think, but I may be wrong.)
Let’s be very clear and list what adapter is needed for which tube. Furthermore, if you’re using tube adapters, it may be wise to spend a few dollars more to get high quality adapters (such as those made of Teflon and available from Woo Audio) https://wooaudio.com/accessories/various-tube-adapters
So can someone please tell me, which specific Woo adapter (from their web site selection) I will need for each of the following tubes that are available to me:
- 6900
- 5687
- 7119
- 6922
- 12AU7
Marty
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I don't think Woo audio is going to carry most of the adapters. It did seem as though Lampi would supply at least 1 set of adapters. Here are some ebay adapters that should work. Adapt at your own risk...I am not sure all these tubes will actually work.
5687 and 6900: https://www.ebay.com/itm/193444248800?hash=item2d0a2cfce0:g:8EQAAOSwHnFVvtCu
6922: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203316593257?hash=item2f569d0269:g:X4wAAOSwCY9ZpiqG
12AU7: https://www.ebay.com/itm/294620458421?hash=item4498bf6db5:g:OkcAAOSwFGRhseP-
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6n6p is the stock, so it has the pinout like Ecc81, so no adapter needed, the other tubes need adapters or new bases equiv to 5687 and 6922 configurations. Note that U can't use 5687 & 6922 tubes in the Pac though.
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