LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise

Rolling Pentodes Under the Xmas Tree

Exploiting a longer than usual break from work, and a generous opportunity offered by @takacs75 I indulged myself with some tube amusement over the last few weeks.

More specifically I focused on the pentodes, and I could compare the P17c (SFR), E55L (Mullard) and EL81 (Tungsram) on my Horizon360, which I use in single ended mode to my Riviera Labs AIC-10. My listening sessions involved headphones and, for the most part, speakers stints (Diesis Aura).

To make things even more fun, during the same period two major changes occurred in my system, namely the arrival of the Taiko Olympus and the installation of room treatment, both of which had a larger impact on the sound than tube rolling, forcing me to redo the pentodes assessment multiple times.

I listen mainly to acoustic music. Timbre naturalness, ambience reconstruction, transient (attack and decay) structure and ease of dynamics are my main priorities.

I found all three tubes as eccellent performers, belonging to a similar tier of technical and musical prowess (which already speaks in favor of the much cheaper EL81). All of them offer an upgrade compared to the stock KT150 that came with the Horizon, which, in direct comparison, sounds a bit grey-ish and unrefined.

The E55L is the most dynamic, it conveys energy to the music with a sense of cogency and purpose without being fatiguing or strained. Transients have sharper attacks, yet still a natural, rich decay. Upper midrange, and treble are the most neutral, with a touch of shimmer on top which illuminates details in the music. Instrument separation and the rendition of spatial cues are top notch.

The EL81 is softer and bloomier. It emphasizes body in the bass and midrange response, loosing some focus in comparison to the E55L, yet making listening pleasingly relaxed, and more tolerant of less-than-perfect recordings.

The P17c is somewhat in between the two, it has the most refined and naturally organic midrange response. Bass is not as tight as the E55L but it has more volume and still retains articulation and tunefulness. Treble is perhaps a hair less prominent than the E55L. Soundstage presentation is on par with the E55L, but different in style, lending to a more cohesive blending of instrument on display.

I could not declare a clear winner, for example when listening over headphones and using the Taiko Extreme I sensed that the E55L was a bit overwhelming, and - on the opposite - when using the Aura and a configuration of my room treatment with a lot (too much) of absorption, the E55L became my favorite.

Now I tend to believe that the P17c are the best balance in my current condition, but this exercise confirmed me how system-dependent (let alone subjective factors) evaluations become at this level.


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Rolling Pentodes Under the Xmas Tree

Exploiting a longer than usual break from work, and a generous opportunity offered by @takacs75 I indulged myself with some tube amusement over the last few weeks.

More specifically I focused on the pentodes, and I could compare the P17c (SFR), E55L (Mullard) and EL81 (Tungsram) on my Horizon360, which I use in single ended mode to my Riviera Labs AIC-10. My listening sessions involved headphones and, for the most part, speakers stints (Diesis Aura).

To make things even more fun, during the same period two major changes occurred in my system, namely the arrival of the Taiko Olympus and the installation of room treatment, both of which had a larger impact on the sound than tube rolling, forcing me to redo the pentodes assessment multiple times.

I listen mainly to acoustic music. Timbre naturalness, ambience reconstruction, transient (attack and decay) structure and ease of dynamics are my main priorities.

I found all three tubes as eccellent performers, belonging to a similar tier of technical and musical prowess (which already speaks in favor of the much cheaper EL81). All of them offer an upgrade compared to the stock KT150 that came with the Horizon, which, in direct comparison, sounds a bit grey-ish and unrefined.

The E55L is the most dynamic, it conveys energy to the music with a sense of cogency and purpose without being fatiguing or strained. Transients have sharper attacks, yet still a natural, rich decay. Upper midrange, and treble are the most neutral, with a touch of shimmer on top which illuminates details in the music. Instrument separation and the rendition of spatial cues are top notch.

The EL81 is softer and bloomier. It emphasizes body in the bass and midrange response, loosing some focus in comparison to the E55L, yet making listening pleasingly relaxed, and more tolerant of less-than-perfect recordings.

The P17c is somewhat in between the two, it has the most refined and naturally organic midrange response. Bass is not as tight as the E55L but it has more volume and still retains articulation and tunefulness. Treble is perhaps a hair less prominent than the E55L. Soundstage presentation is on par with the E55L, but different in style, lending to a more cohesive blending of instrument on display.

I could not declare a clear winner, for example when listening over headphones and using the Taiko Extreme I sensed that the E55L was a bit overwhelming, and - on the opposite - when using the Aura and a configuration of my room treatment with a lot (too much) of absorption, the E55L became my favorite.

Now I tend to believe that the P17c are the best balance in my current condition, but this exercise confirmed me how system-dependent (let alone subjective factors) evaluations become at this level.


View attachment 142717
Did all of them require adapters?
 
I havn't got a Lampizator Horizon Dac but I read with great interest the views on this thread with regard to the Thomson CSF 5687WA valves.My Tron Seven GT Spec pre uses two 5687's in the output stages & having read the glowing reviews on this thread I decided to order two matched open black plate Thomson 5687's from Vintelec in France.I picked them up this morning & installed them a couple of hours ago & am blown away by them its like I have had a major upgrade.They replaced Sylvania Gold Brand 5687's as well which are amongst the best 5687's available but the Thomson 5687's take it to another level and then some.
 
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Two quick questions: I can see from previous pages that many of you are using Telefunken or Valvo RGN2504 in Horizon.
1. Where do you get socket adapters from (i.e. B4 to UX4 - correct?)?
2. Is it not an jssue that Lampizator rectifier voltage is 5V and RGN2504 is 4V only? Is there a big risk of overheating/damaging the RGN2504 tube?
I would be thankful if one of the experts can clarify on above :D
 
Two quick questions: I can see from previous pages that many of you are using Telefunken or Valvo RGN2504 in Horizon.
1. Where do you get socket adapters from (i.e. B4 to UX4 - correct?)?
2. Is it not an jssue that Lampizator rectifier voltage is 5V and RGN2504 is 4V only? Is there a big risk of overheating/damaging the RGN2504 tube?
I would be thankful if one of the experts can clarify on above :D
1) Majority of cheap adapters were sourced from eBay while TOTL ones from Laszlo here on WBF
2) Within adapter there is a resistor to lower the voltage from 5 to 4V so you’re good to go.
But not everything is in the heater voltage for the long and happy life of the tube;)
 
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Hi Golum,
Thanks a lot! Really appreciated.
In such case if I find the right adapter I will give it a try on EML RGN2504 in my Lampizator Pacific.
Would that be the proper adapter:
?
 
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Nope - you need RGN2504 to 5u4g or similar...
 
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Hi Golum,
Thanks a lot! Really appreciated.
In such case if I find the right adapter I will give it a try on EML RGN2504 in my Lampizator Pacific.
Would that be the proper adapter:
?
as Golum said, if your'e going to use these tubes it would be in your best interest to reach out to Laszlo @takacs75 for not only an adequate and appropriate adapter but IMO the best built
 
Thanks Steve!
I will for sure reach out to @takacs75 , however in this particular case it looks like adapter might be more expensive than the tube itself:rolleyes:
EML is selling newly produced RGN2504 for c.a. EUR 350 in Europe. They claim it is a perfect copy of NOS with identical specs. Would be cool to give it a try, I think. Generally EML tubes I have tried so far were good in most of the cases, and EML 5U4GM is one of my favorite rectis for Lampizator DACs.
 
Thanks Steve!
I will for sure reach out to @takacs75 , however in this particular case it looks like adapter might be more expensive than the tube itself:rolleyes:
EML is selling newly produced RGN2504 for c.a. EUR 350 in Europe. They claim it is a perfect copy of NOS with identical specs. Would be cool to give it a try, I think. Generally EML tubes I have tried so far were good in most of the cases, and EML 5U4GM is one of my favorite rectis for Lampizator DACs.
Well if you were able to buy either of those tubes for under the price of the TP Adapter, you either got the deal of the century or you bought a very used tube that might not measure well. FWIW I use all TP adapters on my Horizon as I want to preserve the integrity of my Horizon as well as to preserve the longevity of my expensive vintage tubes. The investment IMHO is well worth it. You wont be disappointed. Im sure I not only talk for myself here but so also for a very large part of the Lampi membership who have made similar purchases. These adapters are quantum leaps ahead of any similar adapter you might find on eBay. Laszlo is a zealot like us and settles for nothing less than perfection.
 
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Well if you were able to buy either of those tubes for under the price of the TP Adapter, you either got the deal of the century or you bought a very used tube that might not measure well. FWIW I use all TP adapters on my Horizon as I want to preserve the integrity of my Horizon as well as to preserve the longevity of my expensive vintage tubes. The investment IMHO is well worth it. You wont be disappointed. Im sure I not only talk for myself here but so also for a very large part of the Lampi membership who have made similar purchases. These adapters are quantum leaps ahead of any similar adapter you might find on eBay. Laszlo is a zealot like us and settles for nothing less than perfection.
I don't know if current production Emmission Labs RGN2504 are better than NOS Telefunken or Valvo RGN25004 - I would like to find out how good new production EML RGN2504 is.
The fact of the matter is that new production EML RGN2504, list price in Europe is EUR 350+VAT.
There is an interesting article about the production process of RGN2504 on EML webpage. I am not in any way linked to EML or audio industry, I am just tempted to give a try to RGN2504.
 
Thanks Steve!
I will for sure reach out to @takacs75 , however in this particular case it looks like adapter might be more expensive than the tube itself:rolleyes:
EML is selling newly produced RGN2504 for c.a. EUR 350 in Europe. They claim it is a perfect copy of NOS with identical specs. Would be cool to give it a try, I think. Generally EML tubes I have tried so far were good in most of the cases, and EML 5U4GM is one of my favorite rectis for Lampizator DACs.
Hi JSA.
The reason why tubes with 4Volt heater are used is meanly because all of the old (old!) best 5Volt tubes (in that case rectifiers) are unobtainable these days, whereas you can still find old 4Volt recti with mesh anodes as thy were not so vastly used in audio equipment.
Those are for some worth a lot of money if you seek for vintage ( call it natural / neutral / analog and delicate) sound.
They give unique sound signature that is hard to achieve other way.
EML RGN2504 may be a great tube, for many may be better than those old ones - didn’t tried them, but I doubt if they produce them the same way due to material restrictions. EML was indeed, and it looks like still is, the only company these days, that makes mesh anodes as they should be made and not pretend they are meshed.
That said, it looks for me like there is no point to buy newly produced tube for 4Volt and use adapter. It is better to buy 5Volt type.

And one more thing, since Lampi community started to use 4Volt rectis like Telefunken or Valvo their prices gone madly high, but that’s life.
 
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Sorry for the newbie question but - do I need an adapter to use Telefunken C3GS tubes in the Horizon 360? thanks!
 
Sorry for the newbie question but - do I need an adapter to use Telefunken C3GS tubes in the Horizon 360? thanks!
You do need them
 

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