LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise

[John T]

There're advantages IMO to running the Horizon SE

You could be right? I will make it a point to experiment with both SE and Balanced. Its kind of stupid that I haven't already. I still can't get my head around Ian being able in lowering the gain to 50 on the H with a preamp in the chain?

 

[takacs75]

There are quite a few 2504s i have found out there , all i will say is....valvo is good but we had our blinders on Having said that... unfortunately most other non tfn or valvo 2504s are near impossible to find so for the community valvo is it. For eg the tesla 2561a. The one i got used to be part of the collection of Ricardo Kron ( rip) mesh plate as well and a tesla 2504. Its the blackest mesh i have ever seen and wow! But you just cant find another. Interestingly....brass pins! now that i dont see very often makes you wonder what they used for the anode on the inside. To give an idea of how esoteric this one is ...its not even listed in any of the valve databases out there. Simply a ghost. I told Steve - a ghost tube!

Has Tibor been able to find anything to better the 2504?

i always love the look of a mesh - great job Laszlo finding that gem A most beautiful tube

No, Tibor is busy with making adapters for you

 

[Steve Williams]

I still maintain that if using your own preamp the best sound from the Horizon IMO comes when the entire signal is passed through to your preamp. As stated I can hear a difference between 62 and 63.

 

[dminches]

There're advantages IMO to running the Horizon SE

Except (at least in my system) balanced sounds better than SE.

 

[Steve Williams]

Except (at least in my system) balanced sounds better than SE.

of course, if that works for you. Are you using an external preamp and if you're at 63 you're there. I fell into it a few days ago when I blew a tube on my amp and retuned my entire amp as it was time. Using the Soviet 6N30P-EB I can easily play everything with the Horizon at 63. Had I not found that nut, I would have been tempted to go back to my Mullard ECC32 OR keep the c3g/s and swap out the Valve for the TFKN RGN 2004 (I plan on doing the latter here today for comparison purposes but TBH the sound I am hearing now is simply exquisite

 

[dminches]

of course, if that works for you. Are you using an external preamp and if you're at 63 you're there. I fell into it a few days ago when I blew a tube on my amp and retuned my entire amp as it was time. Using the Soviet 6N30P-EB I can easily play everything with the Horizon at 63. Had I not found that nut, I would have been tempted to go back to my Mullard ECC32 OR keep the c3g/s and swap out the Valve for the TFKN RGN 2004 (I plan on doing the latter here today for comparison purposes but TBH the sound I am hearing now is simply exquisite

Yes, I use a pre-amp and my Horizon has always been at 63. I can A/B SE vs Balanced and balanced always sounds better (once I adjust the volume on my preamp).

 

[John T]

Yes, I use a pre-amp and my Horizon has always been at 63. I can A/B SE vs Balanced and balanced always sounds better (once I adjust the volume on my preamp).

Same with me I have never had to adjust the gain on the Horizon...

 

[Steve Williams]

Yes, I use a pre-amp and my Horizon has always been at 63. I can A/B SE vs Balanced and balanced always sounds better (once I adjust the volume on my preamp).

Same with me I have never had to adjust the gain on the Horizon...

Precisely my point.

 

[Steve Williams]

Yes, I use a pre-amp and my Horizon has always been at 63. I can A/B SE vs Balanced and balanced always sounds better (once I adjust the volume on my preamp).

a proper A-B test should involve same parameters so IMO a proper test is with Balanced and SE at the same volume setting on your preamp. If you're telling me it sounds better because you are adjusting the volume then all bets are off

 

[dminches]

a proper A-B test should involve same parameters so IMO a proper test is with Balanced and SE at the same volume setting on your preamp. If you're telling me it sounds better because you are adjusting the volume then all bets are off

I am adjusting the volume because the balanced output is 4 (or 10) dB louder. The only way for me to make a comparison is to have them at the same listening level. Otherwise the louder will almost always sound better.

No?

 

[Steve Williams]

exactly. Same spl for a proper evaluation. Im sticking with SE as it sounds great at my end and Lamm does not ever use a balanced connection.

 

[Steve Williams]

Gotta love the glow from those copper plated GM-70's in my recently retubed amp

 

[plasmod3]

I also tried blending with the RS1003. I attempted to explain this to SW, perhaps I didn't make it very clear. I found the RS1003 were too much. I used, OS1, KT88, KT170, in the opposite bank, to no avail. I was also using the E83F (double). Ian are you using a preamp and turning the gain down to 50 on the H? If so the gain must be quite hot on your pre? I think I read where you did some modification in your pre? Maybe its the neutrality of the Mephisto? If I turn the gain down to 62/61 it just doesn't work, diminished returns...

I am using a preamp. Managed to get the horizon back to 61 through a rectifier change which worked quite well with the ec8020. The pre isn't turned up high so more gain headroom is certainly possible. Despite all the gain in multiple stages, the system remains eerily quiet. That remains the key.. Baseline noise of a very very low level is often hard to achieve. Even my base preamp was very noisy until I figured out how to get it quiet through various means

 

[bonzo75]

Anyone have a pair of Mullard EL34 xf1/2 and Genalex Gold Lion KT77 for sale?

 

[takacs75]

 

[takacs75]

Anyone have a pair of Mullard EL34 xf1/2 and Genalex Gold Lion KT77 for sale?

I have a pair of Gold Lion. I don’t use them, you can have them for free

 

[Steve Williams]

As Paul Harvey used to say, "and now you know the rest of the story"

Ever since I swapped out the Mullard brown base ECC32 6 weeks ago for the TFKN c3g/s there was an amazing uptick in system dynamics. I was hearing detail beyond anything I have ever heard before , so much so that the VC on the Horizon had to be dialed back to 59. I continue to use my Lamm preamp but have said many times that my goal is to pass the entire signal from the Horizon to my preamp. Last week when I retuned my Lamm amps and used Sovtek 6N30P-EB rather than 6N30P-DR I was able to get my Horizon VC back to 63 and had control of the signal via my preamp. I had to lower the gain on my preamp from the 6th to the 5th detente position when using the Valvo G2504. The Valvo is truly a game changer. The amount of dynamics and detail heard with the Valvo G2504, TFKN c3g/s and SRS551 was beyond anything I have ever heard with the Horizon. My concern however that with al of this dynamics and detail, there seemed to be a loss of musicality. I was being drawn into the listening session mesmerized by the amount of detail I was hearing and I was involved, yet there was an apparent lack of warmth and musicality that I heard before when I used the TFKN RGN 2004. Yesterday therefore I spent the entire day listening, having swapped out the Valvo G2504 for my TFK RGN2004 mesh plate. I have always felt that the solid plate brings the dynamics and detail whereas the mesh plate brings some warmth to the presentation

Yesterday I switched out the Valvo G2504 for the TFKN RGN 2004 and the sound is simply beautiful. Im easily back at 63 on the Horizon VC and have more headroom with my preamp. There is something far more musical about the mesh plate vs the solid plate The Valvo is a workhorse that is filled with detail but felt cold and did not draw me in and keep me as engaged as did the RGN 2004. I am torn between the two. I was so into the listening session yesterday. The dynamics were there but not to the intense degree as when Valvo was used. I just think that SRS551 plus c3g/s brings such dynamics to the soundstage that adding the Valvo rectifier resulted in having to dial back the VC on the Horizon. I want the full signal passed to my preamp. This was not only easier but truthfully it was far more musical than analytical. Im keeping the Valvo recti I have but for now am smiling cheek to cheek with this much unexpected sound.

Bottom line is 2 great rectifiers and depending on one's system, ears and room and genre of music played either is a keeper

RGN20004 ........great dynamics and much more musical, rounded and warmer

Valvo G2504......enormous dynamics and detail but more analytic and colder.

Both are superb and for now I have gone back to the RGN2004. Using this rectifier, I am at 63 VC on the Horizon ad my preamp is now at the 6th detente position rather than the 5th and sounding absolutely magical

Of course, this is but my impressions and YMMV

 

[Steve Williams]

I'm eagerly looking forward to the soon to be released TP Adapters for the RGN2004 and another for the G2504

 

[John T]

As Paul Harvey used to say, "and now you know the rest of the story"

Ever since I swapped out the Mullard brown base ECC32 6 weeks ago for the TFKN c3g/s there was an amazing uptick in system dynamics. I was hearing detail beyond anything I have ever heard before , so much so that the VC on the Horizon had to be dialed back to 59. I continue to use my Lamm preamp but have said many times that my goal is to pass the entire signal from the Horizon to my preamp. Last week when I retuned my Lamm amps and used Sovtek 6N30P-EB rather than 6N30P-DR I was able to get my Horizon VC back to 63 and had control of the signal via my preamp. I had to lower the gain on my preamp from the 6th to the 5th detente porition when using the Valvo G2504. The Valvo is truly a game changer. The amount of dynamics and detail heard with the Valvo G2504, TFKN c3g/s and SRS551 was beyond anything I have ever heard with the Horizon. My concern however that with al of this dynamics and detail, there seemed to be a loss of musicality. I was being drawn into the listening session mesmerized by the amount of detail I was hearing and I was involved, yet there was an apparent lack of warmth and musicality that I heard before when I used the TFKN RGN 2004. Yesterday therefore I spent the entire day listening, having swapped out the Valvo G2504 for my TFK RGN2004 mesh plate. I have always felt that the solid plate brings the dynamics and detail whereas the mesh plate brings some warmth to the presentation

Yesterday I switched out the Valvo G2504 for the TFKN RGN 2004 and the sound is simply beautiful. Im easily back at 63 on the Horizon VC and have more headroom with my preamp. There is something far more musical about the mesh plate vs the solid plate The Valvo is a workhorse that is filled with detail but felt cold and did not draw me in and keep me as engaged as did the RGN 2004. I am torn between the two. I was so into the listening session yesterday. The dynamics were there but not to the intense degree as when Valvo was used. I just think that SRS551 plus c3g/s brings such dynamics to the soundstage that adding the Valvo rectifier resulted in having to dial back the VC on the Horizon. I want the full signal passed to my preamp. This was not only easier but truthfully it was far more musical than analytical. Im keeping the Valvo recti I have but for now am smiling cheek to cheek with this much unexpected sound.

Bottom line is 2 great rectifiers and depending on one's system, ears and room and genre of music played either is a keeper

RGN20004 ........great dynamics and much more musical, rounded and warmer

Valvo G2504......enormous dynamics and detail but more analytic and colder.

Both are superb and for now I have gone back to the RGN2004. Using this rectifier, I am at 63 VC on the Horizon ad my preamp is now at the 6th detente position rather than the 5th and sounding absolutely magical

Of course, this is but my impressions and YMMV

I would be curious if you left the G2504 in and tried something different in place of the SRS551. Your spot on in regards to the RGN2004 being rounder, with more warmth, which makes sense in pulling the reins back on too much detail/dynamics.

 

[Steve Williams]

I tried the OS1 again. The SRS551 destroys it