Lampizator Horizon v. dCS Vivaldi Apex Listening Comparison

[Lagonda]

The only time my stereo system has made me weep, was when i tried to lift a 275 lbs MBL 9011 amp in its travel case out of a car, and i dislocated my back ! I'm just not that sensitive

 

[andromedaaudio]

I only cry when i pay too much for a certain piece of gear .
Like when i see it online a month later for 2 K cheaper

 

[Mike Lavigne]

seriously, i hope i have tears of joyful connection (or joyful remembrance) as frequently as possible. how can we not want that? can't recall regretting it.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Okay i ll revise that somewhat .
The combination Wilson Alexx V d agostino DCS Apex made me wanna cry actually in munich .
So much care , so much $$$$ but such an emotionless/ bassless /uninvolving sound

 

[Al M.]

Okay i ll revise that somewhat .
The combination Wilson Alexx V d agostino DCS Apex made me wanna cry actually in munich .
So much care , so much $$$$ but such an emotionless/ bassless /uninvolving sound

As I have pointed out before, it is silly to judge from a mediocre or even bad sound at a show. There can be many reasons for such a sound that have nothing to do with the quality of the components.

It's why I usually don't go to shows. It's mostly pointless, even though there are exceptions, like for example at AXPONA 2017 the great BorderPatrol/Triode Wire Labs/Volti room.

 

[andromedaaudio]

As I have pointed out before, it is silly to judge from a mediocre or even bad sound at a show.

How else are you gonna judge a product ?
Based on a " trusted " reviewer / magazine or can people make up their own mind ?
Ps I do agree a dealer show is often a better set up or a home demo.

Regarding " POINTING OUT " lol
I have also pointed out before , i d rather judge a product from a show then from a magazine .
Plus i heard the same kind of voicing / sound in all 4 wilson set ups .
D agostino the same
DCS the same .

Wadax is the best digital , i hope they take the DCS share in recording studios
Analogue - digital conversion

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wadax is the best digital

Hello,

Please tell us your basis for this conclusion.

Which other DACs have you compared to the Wadax in the exact same system -- with only the DAC changing and everything else being held constant?

Thank you.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Please tell us your basis for this conclusion.

Based on 3 days show , hearing it in 5 or 6 different set ups .
But its my conclusion Ron , and my conclusion is all i need .

Ps Off course people can call me deaf / not well informed / not heard enough systems etc etc .
If i have to chase / hear all variables that exist in this hobby, i can never draw a conclusion / form an opinion / buy a system .

Ps I would go further then that ,WADAX is a game changer ,(and as you know i have never been a digital guy )

 

[wil]

As I have pointed out before, it is silly to judge from a mediocre or even bad sound at a show. There can be many reasons for such a sound that have nothing to do with the quality of the components.

It's why I usually don't go to shows. It's mostly pointless, even though there are exceptions, like for example at AXPONA 2017 the great BorderPatrol/Triode Wire Labs/Volti room.

I believe Roy Gregory, in addressing the preponderance of bad room sound at Munich, that exhibitors should step up their game in presenting good sound and stop blaming it on the conditions.

No doubt, this is easier said than done, but it does appear from many pictures, that not much effort is dedicated to acoustically treat rooms at shows with portable absorption and diffusion. I think that could make a big difference, particularly if focused toward near field listening. Some serious power conditioning or regeneration would also seem to make sense given the prevailing terrible power conditions at shows.

 

[bonzo75]

I believe Roy Gregory, in addressing the preponderance of bad room sound at Munich, that exhibitors should step up their game in presenting good sound and stop blaming it on the conditions.

No doubt, this is easier said than done, but it does appear from many pictures, that not much effort is dedicated to acoustically treat rooms at shows with portable absorption and diffusion. I think that could make a big difference, particularly if focused toward near field listening. Some serious power conditioning or regeneration would also seem to make sense given the prevailing terrible power conditions at shows.

Why do you need a so called pro reviewer to say this? I said it in 2014 or 15 after my first Munich show when I heard some equipment after the show in private set ups. In fact most know this. So there is nothing new. Just that people who claim to make decisions on shows despite warnings are, imo, a bit clueless or under the misconception their hearing is golden due to experience

 

[andromedaaudio]

I believe Roy Gregory, in addressing the preponderance of bad room sound at Munich, that exhibitors should step up their game in presenting good sound and stop blaming it on the conditions.

Me too
I think Roy gregory and Stirling trayle set up the CH / rockport room .
You can say what you want, but they know what they are doing .
Very good room set up with great sound
.

 

[wil]

Why do you need a so called pro reviewer to say this? I said it in 2014 or 15 after my first Munich show when I heard some equipment after the show in private set ups. In fact most know this. So there is nothing new. Just that people who claim to make decisions on shows despite warnings are, imo, a bit clueless or under the misconception their hearing is golden due to experience

The perspective I heard from Gregory, that I had not heard before, is that perhaps exhibitors should put more effort into making their rooms sound good. What is old and tiresome, is hearing after every show, the endless caveats about how bad show conditions are and how we can not take show reports seriously.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Based on 3 days show , hearing it in 5 or 6 different set ups .
But its my conclusion Ron , and my conclusion is all i need .

Yes, your conclusion for yourself is all you need for yourself.

I just wanted to verify my suspicion that you were not reporting the results of legitimate, direct comparisons.

 

[bonzo75]

The perspective I heard from Gregory, that I had not heard before, is that perhaps exhibitors should put more effort into making their rooms sound good. What is old and tiresome, is hearing after every show, the endless caveats about how bad show conditions are and how we can not take show reports seriously.

Look at the costs that already go into a show..Very few exhibitors can afford to go it alone so they group together with other brands to pay for the room. That's why you see Dac A + cable B + speaker C etc. It is difficult to invest further in set up. Some might, and maybe those are the ones that sound good.

Also they are getting returns anyway. Show up at Munich, hike your price by a few multiples, and suckers buy.. No one cares for our high IQ discussions and opinions

Despite me telling people I don't value Munich judgements I make myself, I keep getting PMs on what I can recommend after Munich visits. Ridiculous

 

[Audiocrack]

Yes, your conclusion for yourself is all you need for yourself.

I just wanted to verify my suspicion that you were not reporting the results of legitimate, direct comparisons.

If someone likes a certain component that was used under difficult show conditions in various rooms, you can be pretty sure he/she will be very, very impressed cq pleased by it when such a component is inserted in his/her own system at home. (although it is damn difficult to single out (the performance of) a single component in an unfamiliar set up under unfamiliar show conditions).

Claiming that a certain audio component is plain bad solely based on listening impressions / experiences under show conditions - as some of our members did on WBF - is imho plain stupid.

 

[microstrip]

Okay i ll revise that somewhat .
The combination Wilson Alexx V d agostino DCS Apex made me wanna cry actually in munich .

I hope you were carrying reusable handkerchiefs ...

So much care , so much $$$$ but such an emotionless/ bassless /uninvolving sound

Yes, WBF readers know that you dislike the type of sound quality of these brands - easy to understand from your many past posts on bass reproduction - but can't resist to write the name of very successful brands in your posts.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Thats not true micro .
I never really bashed wilson before

Ps I have changed , the wilson sound has changed , time to move on

 

[Al M.]

pk_LA´s system is clearly a very impressive setup and I am sure it sounds wonderful. However, in the comparisons you have made, I am still a bit puzzled by your notes above.

When playing on a system, we do not listen to individual components, but to the entire system. By swapping components, as you did, we can listen to how individual components influence the listening experience of that particular system. Individual components may hide or emphasize positive or negative qualities in the system and I wonder if that is the case here.

I have not heard the Boulder 3060, but I have heard a number of other Boulder amps and in particular the 3050, since I almost bought it. They have all been great amps, transparent, analytical, dynamic, but, in my view, a bit on the dry side. Combining a tubed DAC, as the Lampizator, to a Boulder amp, may well be a match made in heaven, whereas a dCS Vivaldi stack may double up on some of the amplifiers edgy qualities, giving the results you are describing.

Like you, I am primarily an analog man and it took me a long time to embrace digital. It actually did not happen until I heard the dCS Vivaldi 2.0 in a Pass Labs and Martin Logan system. Currently I am using the dCS stack, but with an Ypsilon VPS100 MkII and Hyperion amplifier chain. Candidates I ended up with, after assessing them along side d´Agostini Momentum and Boulder 3050. I decided on the Hyperions, because they, combined with my analog rig and the dCS stack, gave me the most musical and satisfying combination. Dry, sterile, flat and thin are words I definitely would not use to describe it.

My experience with the dCS/Ypsilon combination is that it is the most musical and "analog" digital audio chain I have ever heard. Some of your descriptions above, and I am not questioning your experience, are totally wrong up against my experience. Based on my own listening, I believe it has to do with the Boulder/DAC experience, where the Boulder/Lampi were made for each other and not so the dCS. However, you made me very curious, so I will now try to get a Lampizator into my system and see how it works there.

It may have escaped your attention that Ron posted an update (post #32) that is much more favorable to the dCS.

 

[Al M.]

If someone likes a certain component that was used under difficult show conditions in various rooms, you can be pretty sure he/she will be very, very impressed cq pleased by it when such a component is inserted in his/her own system at home. (although it is damn difficult to single out (the performance of) a single component in an unfamiliar set up under unfamiliar show conditions).

Claiming that a certain audio component is plain bad solely based on listening impressions / experiences under show conditions - as some of our members did on WBF - is imho plain stupid.

"is imho plain stupid"

Exactly.

As you suggest, and I have constantly said, if something sounds good at a show, great, that's a useful data point. If something doesn't, it's not a useful data point.

Bad sound at a show may confirm previous biases, but that mere fact, perhaps pleasing to the individual harboring those biases, still doesn't make the data point any more useful.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Al then what is a usefull data point for you ???
Where do you base conclusions on?