"Long-Term Equipment Loans: A Win-Win for Everyone" by Robert Harley, The Absolute Sound

[PeterA]

How can show exhibitors prohibit negative comments? Sounds to me like Jay is steering his audience to his website where he makes more money to be "honest". Something seems a bit fishy.

 

[facten]

At the end of the day - reviews are largely for entertainment or as a "post-purchase" read to make you feel good about what you already purchased

Guess I'm an outlier. I read reviews, if available, of components, cables, accessories that I may have an interest in before i make a purchase to see if there is any useful information or insights.That for me is no different from my searching forums on said components, etc. to gauge actual user/owner experiences. For me both are simply data points that I may or may not incorporate into my decisions . I don't read reviews on said items after the purchase for the "feel good" conformation or for any other reason.

 

[tima]

How can show exhibitors prohibit negative comments? Sounds to me like Jay is steering his audience to his website where he makes more money to be "honest". Something seems a bit fishy.

I don't know or pay attention to Jay. Is he also a dealer?

 

[Chop]

Whether long term loans are influencing reviewers or not becomes less relevant if you don't slavishly trust any reviewer, but view the reviews as entertainment or as nothing more than a broad indicator of possible merit.

My point is that reading about someone else's opinion of something is pretty pointless. In any industry there will be some honourable people and some untrustworthy people. As others have said all we can do is identify writers - or other listeners - whose taste and therefore opinion is in the same direction of travel as ours. My direction has been to high efficiency and lower output valves. This is after having higher power solid state amps in the past. I may be wrong or misguided but it suits my ears.

- I can't remember, was it Frank Zappa who said writing about music is like dancing about architecture?

 

[bonzo75]

My direction has been to high efficiency and lower output valves. This is after having higher power solid state amps in the past.

-

As per Charles Darwin, you are more evolved

 

[bonzo75]

The reality is most buyers aren't seasoned readers and people like some on this forum who can read different reviews, test some of the equipment to check which reviewer is fibbing and which one is writing more like he hears. Nor do they have the bandwidth to benchmark to individual tastes, or to read between the lines of is this slang for the reviewer being lukewarm?

They either trust Stereophile and TAS type mags to have a process to ensure fair reviews on the whole, or they don't. Those who do trust reviews broadly, buy because a reviewer recommended XYZ. They google the products they know and go on whatever reviews they find that confirm their bias. Therefore reviewers intentionally or unintentionally command a lot of say in what people buy and I am sure manufacturers and reviewers know that

 

[Muser]

Chop wrote:
"- I can't remember, was it Frank Zappa who said writing about music is like dancing about architecture?"
Laurie Anderson

LongTerm loans allow a reviewer exposure to that which he/she might not otherwise get to hear and become familiar with. Who would take a long term loan of something they didn't like?

Audio reviews for me are like reading restaurant reviews. The review can be truthful, for that writer, and useful for readers with similar tastes and useful for others with different tastes. I enjoy some food, but not all - that's my taste profile. People who listen without preference or taste are ... imaginary creatures. Match your taste with a reviewers, and then be responsible for your own purchasing choices.

Looking for "the truth" or something perfect? Drop the audio hobby and smoke crack, at least then you'll have a more immersive illusion of perfect. To reiterate, i think reviews should be read as a place to start your own search.

 

[PeterA]

I don't know or pay attention to Jay. Is he also a dealer?

I think he represents some brands plus he is a reseller.

 

[Lee]

To TAS credit, they have always said to use the recommendations as a starting point. Every audiophile has different sound preferences so a personal audition is needed.

 

[Lee]

I don't know or pay attention to Jay. Is he also a dealer?

For some brands yes. He represents Stromtank for instance.

 

[rsrzr]

Long term short term, the end review doesn’t change. Every review in TAS is a glowing positive, most of the time a gushing positive. How does this help a reader of the mag? It doesn’t. I cancelled TAS a year ago because there are other reviewers that will state when a component isn’t up to the standards of other gear in the same price range.

Why can’t each review of a product be honest? Why don’t they do head to head comparisons like automotive magazines do which will state a winner, and who comes in second, 3rd and last?

when I bought my new Porsche, I looked at many reviews that compared the model I was looking at to others that were $75k cheaper to hundreds of thousands more expensive. And most of the time, the most expensive doesn’t always win in automotive reviews, not so in audio reviews.

 

[bonzo75]

Audio reviews for me are like reading restaurant reviews. The review can be truthful, for that writer, and useful for readers with similar tastes and useful for others with different tastes. I enjoy some food, but not all - that's my taste profile. People who listen without preference or taste are ... imaginary creatures. Match your taste with a reviewers, and then be responsible for your own purchasing choices.

It’s not the same as a restaurant review. The Google ratings of restaurants or of movies on IMDb are done on the back of hundreds and thousands. How many reviews do you think you can find for AF0? Two owners on this forum, and Fremer’s review. For lower priced hifi it will be more but still usually small in numbers, and with many agendas.

Moreover, what’s worst that can go wrong following a restaurant review. You will have one bad lunch or dinner which is immaterial.

You go wrong with a dream hifi purchase you are stuck forever. Very difficult to get out, or you need to take a big loss. And for all other such complex purchases, like buying a house, you can view, use a surveyor, and a lawyer. Hifi is quite unique unlike houses, cars or restaurants in its purchase patterns.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Hifi is indeed quit different.
You use your ears , i have never seen somebody buy a house or a car with his ears .

So hifi can be a large purchase in some cases , you have to be really stupid to let such a large personal expenditure be dependant on somebody elses opinion..


What i find really sad in todays high end audio is that a lot of shops are appointment only .
20 years ago i could just walk in a lot of shops play some music have a Coffee and get a sound expirience

 

[Another Johnson]

You go wrong with a dream hifi purchase you are stuck forever. Very difficult to get out, or you need to take a big loss. And for all other such complex purchases, like buying a house, you can view, use a surveyor, and a lawyer. Hifi is quite unique unlike houses, cars or restaurants in its purchase patterns.

I limit my hobby “play” money to no more than 2% of my net worth. That’s all hobbies. Motorcycles, guitars, cameras, firearms, audio, etc. I would never consider borrowing to acquire any hobby gear. If I can’t pay by cash and/or trade, I don’t buy it.

Under this guideline, I would never acquire a six figure turntable, or nearly seven figure speakers. But using the same rule, another person might be very comfortable with such purchases. As I’ve said before, if my wife puts my stereo system at the curb when I’m gone, it will not impact the quality of her life. We do not need income from my hobby “investments” to live. Anyone who follows these rule isn’t going to be hurt too much if they find they’ve made a mistake.

 

[bonzo75]

you have to be really stupid to let such a large personal expenditure be dependant on somebody elses opinion.

I think you will buy expensive SETs horns on my opinion then

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think you will buy expensive SETs horns on my opinion then

Lol , sure if you take the plunge yourself first.

 

[Tangram]

To me this is a Catch 22. I think we agree that the longer something is in a system, the more familiar we become with it. Long-term loans also enable a degree of “stability” in a reviewer’s system. Nothing frustrates me more than a review of, say, a cartridge, using a pair of speakers that are also in for review but which the reviewer can’t possibly be familiar with. Also, most reviewers don’t have the financial means to own an uber expensive reference system outright, yet readers love reading about uber expensive gear. No point reviewing a Safir tonearm on an inexpensive turntable. So reviewers are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

This isn’t a critique of the value of reviewers per se, but I personally enjoy being exposed to innovative gear that would otherwise be below my radar.

 

[bonzo75]

To me this is a Catch 22. I think we agree that the longer something is in a system, the more familiar we become with it. Long-term loans also enable a degree of “stability” in a reviewer’s system. Nothing frustrates me more than a review of, say, a cartridge, using a pair of speakers that are also in for review but which the reviewer can’t possibly be familiar with. Also, most reviewers don’t have the financial means to own an uber expensive reference system outright, yet readers love reading about uber expensive gear. No point reviewing a Safir tonearm on an inexpensive turntable. So reviewers are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

This isn’t a critique of the value of reviewers per se, but I personally enjoy being exposed to innovative gear that would otherwise be below my radar.

it just doesn’t matter. Set up is different from listening. Set up takes a lot of time, listening requires listening with different combinations/in different systems to ascertain what makes it work, what doesn’t, what is consistent across implementations. So ideally you need a reviewer with multiple systems who can set it up effectively in each one.

So, if Fremer add the leading analog reviewer uses only expensive SAT arms and bespoke Schroeder arms it might be less relevant to many.

i would suggest he keep two vintage low priced arms (3012r and fidelity research), Two mid priced (in the region of 4p and triplanar), and of course the expensive ones. Then of course a couple of linear trackers. And two or three phonos at each price point. A few TTs. And then rotate carts across all of them to write the review.

 

[mtemur]

but I'd rather review products that measure and sound good and provide a service for readers looking to purchase something that's modern and reliable and that moves the hobby forward not backwards.

If they like SETs have them for their hobby but have something that measures reliably well when writing reviews.

In collusion, I did more than a few times review low power tube amps and described the sound accurately. It doesn't matter if I like or hate the sound. What matters is that I described how they sounded. Of course I knew when John Atkinson measured them (back when I was at S-phile), the measurements would be miserable, like the giant WAVACs I reviewed.

You clearly indicated that your preference towards solid state amps and the reason for that SS measures well on the bench but SET measures poorly. Vinyl measures as bad as SETs compared to CDs but you prefer vinyl. Any CD player easily puts 100K turntable and 10K cartridge into shame in terms of frequency response (not frequency range and don’t tell me about response beyond 20KHz) , THD, S/N ratio, dynamic range etc. If you care about measurements listen to CDs.

“I’d rather review products that measure and sound good”. With all due respect that’s a weird explanation for avoiding SETs and low powered tube amps. People around me enjoying SETs never mention measurements, they simply don’t care. I think it requires a level of appreciation.

 

[tima]

For some brands yes. He represents Stromtank for instance.

I think he represents some brands plus he is a reseller.

If he is a dealer and he comments on rooms at shows or other dealers products through his videos then in my eyes he has no integrity.