Magico M3 MPod 3 Point Speaker Stands

[FrantzM]

rvsinta


Not the technology. The asking price. The ever increasing price of things High End Audio with no end in sight. The rationalization , that goes with it. High End Audio seems to be the only technological segment where prices go on increasing for little to no gains. Side steps is our forte and high prices is the new normal.
Magico has been dabbling in this region, they have been doing the crazy expensive isolation accessory dance for a while. They are repeating with this, knowing very well (some) audiophiles will go for it. Reminds me of Boulder charging $16,000 extra for black version on an amp, at least they didn't pretend it made the amplifier better ...

I may be alone there but this leaves me with quite a sour taste about a company that I tend to respect for the quality of its products. Call that an reminder that after all it is just business... You charge what the market can bear ... There are however strange, subliminal psychological limits and in some ways this goes over my threshold for tolerance.

 

[DaveyF]

+1
Rvsinta,

This is not about whether the item in question improves the sound...instead it is like Frantz states;...what is rationalized in regards to the expectation of the manufacturer/ dealer as to what they can get away with in their pricing structure...and likewise,what is tolerable for the customer.
I hope you understand these points...if not, please feel free to PM me.

 

[Kingsrule]

Actually the MPod's are a new designed Pod for the M3 MPOD 3-PT STAND. The MPOD is much larger and designed to support very heavy products. They are not just six Qpods and a few pieces of Al.

View attachment 28052

OK I stand corrected
4 pieces of aluminum and 6 MPods for $9600.....what a rip off

 

[marty]

It is somewhat of a surprising coincidence that this thread was posted today since I happened to stop by Bob’s store, Rhapsody audio in NYC, this morning. As some know, I am not a great fan of almost all of Magico’s previous speaker efforts but a few months ago I had the opportunity to hear the S5 at Myles Astor’s place in NYC and was favorably impressed. Myles said that if I liked that, I should really hear the S7. Bob kindly gave me some time today to do so. Before I begin, I am compelled to say that Bob was the most gracious of hosts and was the antithesis from the salesman who begins by asking you what you have, then giving you the negative head shake to convince you that what you have is inferior to what he sells (you know the type). Rather, Bob was cordial, and let me have free run of a demo that involved some gear substitutions that most dealers wouldn’t be bothered with. All of this goes to make the point that while several of you have thrown barbs at the stupid price of Magico’s new stands for the M3, it would be a huge mistake to confuse the bearer of that bad news with the bad news itself. Bob is a gentleman first and foremost and not only deserves accolades for the way he treated me, but certainly does not deserve the vitriol that have made him endure and defend some of the ignorant and offensive posts I’ve seen in this thread thus far.

I couldn’t agree more that high end pricing has gotten just goofy in the past few years, but please don’t be rude and take it out on Bob or any dealer for that matter. Their job is to demonstrate product for our benefit, not set the prices. And believe me, Bob does that superbly in a great sounding room that really allows product to be demonstrated under great conditions and by making sure the gear was well-warmed before I got there. How many times have you been able to say that about a “hi-end” dealer? The best type of action to protest your feelings about some of the outrageous prices we all object to is simply not to buy them. That’s the way free markets work. And before I go any further, let me tell you, if you think $9600 for speaker stands pisses you off, hang on for the price bomb I’m about to drop next....

As I stated, my purpose was to hear the S7s so I’ll cut to the chase. IMHO, it’s a damn good speaker and world class in some important ways. The system comprised a Czech (?) CD player I never heard of (and can’t remember the name) feeding a Vitus DAC feeding a Kondo preamp feeding Vitus SM101 monoblocs. All cabling was by Enklein. So here is comes- the Kondo pre-amp cost $100,000!!! This is not a typo. That’s right, I’m serious. 100K for two rather small plane Jane metal boxes. (Look at the pic of Bob's gear in an earlier thread. Find the two ugliest boxes you see on the shelf. Yup, that's them!). Kind of makes those Magico stands look like chump change by comparison, yes? Do I find this absurb? You bet I do. To be honest, no audiophile I know wouldn’t be sickened by this. But I’ll also tell you flat out that’s it’s one damn fine sounding preamp . Do I plan to buy one? Are you nuts? I’d rather buy a Bose. But, no matter how I felt, there is no way I could ever take out my anger on Bob. He was simply kind enough to play me a great system for 2 hours that truly knocked me out. During this time, we switched preamps (to a Vitus), cabling (single ended vs balanced), played with some Bybee bullets (in and out), gave me full reign of CD, volume and air-conditioning controls (!) and not once, did he make me feel as though he would refuse any reasonable request. So please back off by criticizing Bob for the prices of the goods he sells. What I would prefer to do instead is thank him for being an unbelievably accommodating dealer who was generous with his time, all the while not having a clue that I was or was not serious about purchasing a pair of S7s. That’s how you make future customers and many a dealer I know could take a lesson or two from him in that department. Bob is first class in my book.

 

[Kingsrule]

Marty

No one on this thread has criticized Bob in any way for the pricing on these Magico speaker supports

 

[DaveyF]

Marty

No one on this thread has criticized Bob in any way for the pricing on these Magico speaker supports

I will add to that to say that I have never met Bob or even heard the Magico M3's. I have heard the Q3's and actually think they are a fabulous speaker!
This is absolutely NOT about this particular dealer, but simply about a business practice that is getting to be more and more prevalent in the high end industry..and one that I personally believe is unhealthy for the hobby. That practice is for manufacturers to be constantly looking for the 'sucker' with more money than sense. Obviously, we are all free to vote with our wallets., but the question becomes...why do we have to --and perhaps more importantly,what kind of an impression does this practice give to the public in general?

 

[NorthStar]

I just finished reading this thread. Hi Bob! :b

Cheers,

 

[Rhapsody]

Hey Marty,

It was great to meet you....thx so much for the visit and kind words. Look forward to our next listening session whenever that occurs.

That was a PiGreco Sonfinia (Italian) cdp being used as a transport for the Vitus DAC. The Vitus 100Watt Class mono amps were the SM102's.

Bob (Northstar) HI, it's been a while, hope all is well.

Everyone has a different perspective on things, it is what it is. I totally understand all of your perspectives regarding pricing in the high end audio industry. It's your opinions and I respect everyone's opinion.

Regardging the Mpods, I have five or six people that are waiting for my M3's to arrive to listen to them. I've told them all about the Mpod stand. Four out of the six M3 interested customers definitely wanted to hear the M3's with the MPod set up and if they purchase M3's will probably purchase the MPod stands. And that's one small NYC dealer, with a product that has not even arrived or been heard yet. Add that up with an international dealer network. My prediction is that most people that purchase M3's will opt for the Mpod stands.

There is a difference between actual M3 buyers and forum activity that critiques and does not agree with a manufacturer's pricing policies.

Again, my offer stands, would really enjoy visits from any of the WBF members for a listening session.....please bring your own great music to turn me onto as Marty did!

I have to add this- I am an audio dealer because I love listening to music and I love gear as well. I also love playing music (guitar and keyboards). Here's the thing, I know how much I love the S7's, they REALLY float my boat. I am "betting" on the come with the M3's that I am going to like them even more. Not as a dealer, but as a listener and music lover. If in fact I was buying the M3's for my personal use for $75K and I liked them as much or more than I like the S7's and I could make them sound significantly better for an additional $9600, then I would have no problem with that.

It's all relative, it you have $300K worth of electronics and cables and are buying $75K speakers, then an extra $10K just doesn't seem to matter, IF it ups the game sonically in a noticeable/positive way. Maybe it does to you, but personally the cost does not matter to me, I'm after sonic performance. Neither does $30K speaker cables or even $100K preamp (that's with a $20K phono board option and a $12K Silver wound SUT included btw), AGAIN IF it increases not only my listening pleasure but I happen to like the company and it's values and the aesthetic look of the product.

There are thousands of audiophiles globally with $300K+ systems. They buy Tripoint grounding devices for $75K, what if the Mpod stands made just as much of a difference as a $75K grounding box, would it still be foolish to purchase? There are SO MANY crazy priced audio products out there. There are also reasonably priced products that sound great too. But there is a reason for Chevys and Ferraris, Timex and Rolex, etc. We are living in a global environment at this point and sometimes things that seem out of wack to a certain geographic region seem totally normal in another area.

Sorry for rambling but I just don't see the big deal about $10K speaker stands that I think are highly engineered devices that support 300+ lb speakers and make them sound better and supported by a first class company. They are also engineered to have wheels installed in the bottom of the stands so the M3's "roll out" of their crates and then you can simply remove the wheels and lower the speaker down which is then supported by the MPod stand. When dealing with 300+ lb speakers all of this means something, again for me personally.

Some of you think they are a rip off, I personally don't, sorry we just disagree. I respect your opinion but honestly it doesn't bother me if you do not respect my perspective, that's all in your heads not mine.....peace be with you!

 

[microstrip]

This is being High End Audio where the metrics of quality is price, this won't dissuade anyone. This begs however the question: Why not provide this as part of the speaker? That is the speaker comes with its feet ...err.. pods... and it is a $85,000 speaker... Again this won't change much and those who can afford it will buy it and claim how much better the speakers are with the pods ...
On my side I cannot help but wait for the time when we audiophiles will wake up and smell the BS ... Excuse the strong language. It seems I could be an endless wait.

Frantz,
I must say that I find difficult to excuse such gratuitous comment in such strong language. We can have interesting and enlightening debates on quality versus price, but what is the purpose of this kind of comment without any serious analysis or debate on the referred device?

 

[microstrip]

It is somewhat of a surprising coincidence that this thread was posted today since I happened to stop by Bob’s store, Rhapsody audio in NYC, this morning. As some know, I am not a great fan of almost all of Magico’s previous speaker efforts but a few months ago I had the opportunity to hear the S5 at Myles Astor’s place in NYC and was favorably impressed. Myles said that if I liked that, I should really hear the S7. Bob graciously gave me some time today to do so. Before I begin, I am compelled to say that Bob was the most gracious of hosts and was the antithesis from the salesman who begins by asking you what you have, then giving you the negative head shake to convince you that what you have is inferior to what he sells (you know the type). Rather, Bob was cordial, and let me have free run of a demo that involved some gear substitutions that most dealers wouldn’t be bothered with. All of this goes to make the point that while several of you have thrown barbs at the stupid price of Magico’s new stands for the M3, it would be a huge mistake to confuse the bearer of that bad news with the bad news itself. Bob is a gentleman first and foremost and not only deserves accolades for the way he treated me, and certainly does not deserve the vitriol that have made him endure and defend some of the ignorant and offensive posts I’ve seen in this thread thus far.

I couldn’t agree more that high end pricing has gotten just goofy in the past few years, but please don’t be rude and take it out on Bob or any dealer for that matter. Their job is to demonstrate product for our benefit, not set the prices. And believe me, Bob does that superbly in a great sounding room that really allows product to be demonstrated under great conditions and by making sure the gear was well-warmed before I got there. How many times have you been able to say that about a “hi-end” dealer? The best type of action to protest your feelings about some of the outrageous prices we all object to is simply not to buy them. That’s the way free markets work. And before I go any further, let me tell you, if you think $9600 for speaker stands pisses you off, hang on for the price bomb I’m about to drop next....

As I stated, my purpose was to hear the S7s so I’ll cut to the chase. IMHO, it’s a damn good speaker and world class in some important ways. The system comprised a Czech (?) CD player I never heard of (and can’t remember the name) feeding a Vitus DAC feeding a Kondo preamp feeding Vitus SM101 monoblocs. All cabling was by Enklein. So here is comes- Kondo pre-amp cost $100,000!!! This is not a typo. That’s right, I’m serious. 100K for two rather small plane Jane metal boxes. (Look at the pic of Bob's gear in an earlier thread. Find the two ugliest boxes you see on the shelf. Yup, that's them!). Kind of makes those Magico stands look like chump change by comparison, yes? Do I find this absurb? You bet I do. To be honest, no audiophile I know wouldn’t be sickened by this. But I’ll also tell you flat out that’s it’s one damn fine sounding preamp . Do I plan to buy one? Are you nuts? I’d rather buy a Bose. But, no matter how I felt, there is no way I could ever take out my anger on Bob. He was simply kind enough to play me a great system for 2 hours that truly knocked me out. During this time, we switched preamps (to a Vitus), cabling (single ended vs balanced), played with some Bybee bullets (in and out), gave me full reign of CD, volume and air-conditioning controls (!) and not once, did he make me feel as though he would refuse any reasonable request. So please back off by criticizing Bob for the prices of the goods he sells. What I would prefer to do instead is thank him for being an unbelievably accommodating dealer who was generous with his time, all the while not having a clue that I was or was not serious about purchasing a pair of S7s. That’s how you make future customers and many a dealer I know could take a lesson or two from him in that department. Bob is first class in my book.

Marty,
Great post in the proper moment!

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz,
I must say that I find difficult to excuse such gratuitous comment in such strong language. We can have interesting and enlightening debates on quality versus price, but what is the purpose of this kind of comment without any serious analysis or debate on the referred device?

Not the least surprised by your reply. It was expected...

 

[caesar]

Gentlemen, another good business move by Magico - from a free market capitalism perspective. Sure, a new qpod footer stand costs as much as a used q1 or s1, but the customer is completely different. The dude who is buying the m3 speaker is at the end of the road. With an $85K speaker, he already likely got good amp, source, and cables. The total system cost is probably $150-$250K+.

So if this footer stand can add sonic value to this dude for only $10K - and this guy already maximized everything in his system, and can't really buy anything else, even if he wanted to - it's peanuts!


However, I remember reading a while back that the rabid Magico fan and member here, Canata, said he was talking to Wolf at a show about stillpoints, and Wolf told him these footer products were all bullsh!t! Is this a matter of softening up the demand for your competitor's product before you release your product, or there something genuinely different between the stillpoints and magico footer products?

Another, more important question, is do these footer systems just add "faux" detail / analytical detail that audiophiles get crazy about for 6 months, and then get rid off after it gives them a migraine, or do they add MUSICAL detail?

 

[DaveyF]

Gentlemen, another good business move by Magico - from a free market capitalism perspective. Sure, a new qpod footer stand costs as much as a used q1 or s1, but the customer is completely different. The dude who is buying the m3 speaker is at the end of the road. With an $85K speaker, he already likely got good amp, source, and cables. The total system cost is probably $150-$250K+.

So if this footer stand can add sonic value to this dude for only $10K - and this guy already maximized everything in his system, and can't really buy anything else, even if he wanted to - it's peanuts!


However, I remember reading a while back that the rabid Magico fan and member here, Canata, said he was talking to Wolf at a show about stillpoints, and Wolf told him these footer products were all bullsh!t! Is this a matter of softening up the demand for your competitor's product before you release your product, or there something genuinely different between the stillpoints and magico footer products?

Another, more important question, is do these footer systems just add "faux" detail / analytical detail that audiophiles get crazy about for 6 months, and then get rid off after it gives them a migraine, or do they add MUSICAL detail?

All good points, Caesar.
Reading some of the other posts, I guess most of the Magico lovers who are considering these mods should consider themselves lucky that they are not priced at $100k and the speakers at $1m.... Which is peanuts.
After all, it's all relative, lol..

 

[cjf]

Wolf told him these footer products were all bullsh!t!

Its funny you mention this because as I was reading thru this thread that exact point is what immediately popped into my head as I remembered reading those comments in the past.

Given the shape of the bottom of these feet I find it hard to imagine how they will couple anything unless were talking about on a rug only. I thought one of the points of coupling a speaker was to also prevent it from sliding about on the floor as the bass drivers goes thru their forward and reward motions at loud volumes? I'm mainly referring to the use of these on a hard smooth surface mainly.

Maybe there is some other kind of hidden "Magic" inside these Magico feet but for $10K they better have a VERY detailed article that explains what one is getting for that kind of coin.

As far as the dealer demoing the use of these feet to potential customers, I would hope said dealer has more than X 1 Pair of M3's on hand (X1 pair /w QPod & X1 pair without). I can imagine any Dealers friendly demeanour quickly fading if they need to go thru the hoops of installing and removing QPods on the fly with a 300+lbs speaker

 

[es347]

3 or 4 years ago Magico introduced a $50K eqpt rack. Does anyone here own one? Any idea how many were sold?

 

[Folsom]

I'm not saying the price is wrong... but there's no provided validation for why the S1.5 speaker set cost the same as some simple feet. Two pairs is about the same price as the S3's... Maybe there's a reason, but it sure doesn't show itself in an obvious way.

 

[PeterA]

3 or 4 years ago Magico introduced a $50K eqpt rack. Does anyone here own one? Any idea how many were sold?

I think that rack was commissioned by a customer as a one-off project. Magico built it and then figured that they had done the research and development and would build more if there was any demand. I don't think they are a real product in production. I have seen the rack in Magico's listening/demo room.

I think it is interesting that this new Qpod foundation system has three points of contact for leveling and better grounding but I wonder if the speaker is as stable laterally as the four point outrigger feet of the Mk 2 models and M Pro.

I find it curious that they don't just make it an integral part of the M3speaker and raise the price a bit. It seems like it could be a stand alone product but sized differently for different speakers. We don't yet know enough details about what the intention is. It's fun to speculate, but perhaps more information will be forthcoming.

 

[FrantzM]

Magico is enjoying its spot under the sun and pushing the envelope poking at how much the market will bear... In Capitalism that is expected, the thing is that the corollary is that there is competition and they are looking at this to know what their next move will be... Such predatory pricing sways people from a brand and start looking for alternatives to Magico.. YG, Rockport, Vivid, VS, Wilson, et al will look for further development , that is they'll watch how the lemmings (us, audiophiles) react to know where they will go.. I hope this provoke a drop in used Q3 price... I saw one at $15K on the 'gon a few minutes ago....We'll see.

 

[Rhapsody]

(From Myles)

According to Alon, the MPods work as follows:


There are 10 parts in each foot. The new MPod bottom section is completely isolated from the top section. Once in place, you remove the pin and engage the load. More to come…

Frantz, Of course I am a Magico dealer, so take my comment with a grain of salt, although along with looking at the other brands you mention. and I think any buyer should, and I happen to sincerely like and respect all of the brands you mention, I bet that Magico is "just getting going"....as you say "we shall see".

 

[FrantzM]

(From Myles)

According to Alon, the MPods work as follows:


There are 10 parts in each foot. The new MPod bottom section is completely isolated from the top section. Once in place, you remove the pin and engage the load. More to come…

Frantz, Of course I am a Magico dealer, so take my comment with a grain of salt, although along with looking at the other brands you mention. and I think any buyer should, and I happen to sincerely like and respect all of the brands you mention, I bet that Magico is "just getting going"....as you say "we shall see".

The thing is , I actually like Magico speakers. In my search for speakers, the Q3 is at or close to the top. I have written here on the WBF, that I believe that a Q3 with multi-subs in a room would challenge the SOTA in speakers. I know (hope wishfully )there will be a serious price drop for them on the used market and may grab a pair if I don't fully invest my energy in Horns or Waveguide speakers. My (strong) objection come from the fact that I believe that here we have a business case rather than a performance one. I sincerely believe that they punted on this one. For those who can afford the speakers $75K or 85 would not make much of a difference. Claiming however that this pod improves the performance of the speakers is odd..If it does then sell the speakers with the pod as an integral part of it... Again $75K vs $85K at that level , not much of a difference ... I could be wrong and the audiophiles may shrug and spend on it.. Or it could mark a turning point.

I don't expect the audiophiles to revolt and stop buying, but good will is a fleeting thing and can be lost along the way. I (and others) do question the practice of ever increasing prices and wonder how sustainable it is. For the High End to survive it needs to bring new blood. In a world where better is getting cheaper everyday, High End Audio is on a different path and this will cause it to die with our generation, the around or over 50 years old who populate this and other audio boards. It may seem a long way out but things go down rather quickly in this New World.