Magico M7 2023

[sbnx]

do you know whether he exclusively used analog, or also used CD/digital references? did he bring his own vinyl pressings?

Stirling uses digital to setup speakers and then uses records to setup the TT.

This part is for Ked.

Obviously, back in the day, before digital the two were combined and could not be separated. Today, we can separate the two. One has to listen to the TT through the speakers. combining the two is frought with error. Let me illustrate. We all know that the speakers should be setup to provide a solid central image on recordings such as vocals. This can be easily modulated by speaker position. The analog guys also know that the cartridge setup can alter the central image as well as it is reading the left and right channel out of the same groove. If one has a TT and uses that to setup speakers and they have the image pulled left then how do they know whether the speakers or the cartrige needs to be adjusted. These would be two very different things.

 

[sbnx]

So someone who use both analog and digital should change the speaker placement and/or listening position when they listen to one or the other? This is ridiculous.

You don't have to do this. The digital is likely the noisier source. Once you ajust for the quieter source (likely analog) then the noisier source fits in.

 

[hopkins]

You don't have to do this. The digital is likely the noisier source. Once you ajust for the quieter source (likely analog) then the noisier source fits in.

There are separate threads for spewing misconceptions about analog versus digital.

 

[sbnx]

Which misconception are you referring?

 

[hopkins]

Which misconception are you referring?

Perhaps I misunderstood, but how would noise level be of any relevance in speaker placement?

Vis à vis channel imbalance of cartridges, correct me if I'm wrong, but most "advanced" vinyl enthusiasts here use several cartridges, tonearms, or even turntables. So do they move the speakers around according to which one they use?

 

[sbnx]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but how would noise level be of any relevance in speaker placement?

Vis à vis channel imbalance of cartridges, correct me if I'm wrong, but most "advanced" vinyl enthusiasts here use several cartridges, tonearms, or even turntables. So do they move the speakers around according to which one they use?

First, I would like to be clear. Nobody is going to advocate for changing speaker or seating placement based on which source a person listens to on any given day.

I am also not a TT person. Ultimately, that is because I don't have the desire to get up and change records that frequently. I have heard TT's and digital in the same system and my experience is that on well recorded material the background is darker and there is more tonal saturation. I firmly believe the absence of this on digital is due to noise. Why do I believe this? Because every time I do something to the digital components -- streamer, dac, cables -- that eliminates noise the background gets darker and there is more tonal saturation. The music gains body. These observations aren't only my components but components in other people's systems that I have removed noise from.

In my experience noise effects speaker positioning in a big way. This is basically for the reason (and more) that I expressed above. If I have a digital source that is extremely noisy then that is going to cause the pitch to be higher which in turn means I will have to adjust the placement of the midrange and tweeter relative to my ear to get a proper balance. If I remove all of this noise then the pitch drops and things will become clearer. I would need to adjust for this change. For clarity, I am not talking about moving the speaker inches but rather milimeter(s) and less.

If someone doesn't buy into the fact the micro adjustments to speakers matter then the discussion above is moot.

This discussion should be moved to one of the other threads if it is to be continued. It only has to do with the M7 in that the M7 will have to be positioned in a room just like any other. I guess we ended up down the rabbit hole since someone took issue the Peter using digital files to adjust the owner's speakers.

 

[hopkins]

First, I would like to be clear. Nobody is going to advocate for changing speaker or seating placement based on which source a person listens to on any given day.

I am also not a TT person. Ultimately, that is because I don't have the desire to get up and change records that frequently. I have heard TT's and digital in the same system and my experience is that on well recorded material the background is darker and there is more tonal saturation. I firmly believe the absence of this on digital is due to noise. Why do I believe this? Because every time I do something to the digital components -- streamer, dac, cables -- that eliminates noise the background gets darker and there is more tonal saturation. The music gains body. These observations aren't only my components but components in other people's systems that I have removed noise from.

In my experience noise effects speaker positioning in a big way. This is basically for the reason (and more) that I expressed above. If I have a digital source that is extremely noisy then that is going to cause the pitch to be higher which in turn means I will have to adjust the placement of the midrange and tweeter relative to my ear to get a proper balance. If I remove all of this noise then the pitch drops and things will become clearer. I would need to adjust for this change. For clarity, I am not talking about moving the speaker inches but rather milimeter(s) and less.

If someone doesn't buy into the fact the micro adjustments to speakers matter then the discussion above is moot.

This discussion should be moved to one of the other threads if it is to be continued. It only has to do with the M7 in that the M7 will have to be positioned in a room just like any other. I guess we ended up down the rabbit hole since someone took issue the Peter using digital files to adjust the owner's speakers.

I could see how changes in some components (ex: amplification) could have an effect on tonal balance (ex: bass) and lead to reconsider placement - In my mind this is something different than "noise", but no need to discuss it further, I understand your point of view and I agree, all this is unrelated to the thread's topic.

 

[Elliot G.]

 

[Elliot G.]

I did a complete move of a lot of gear and set up with Magico M7/ Wadax Reference/Vac pre and monos/ Shunyata Denali and Typhon , REL 32 subs
This was my first time setting up ( not completely done yet but not far away either)
The M7 which is a beautifully made speaker and it sounds really good as well.

 

[PeterA]

Elliot, could you explain the reason for the tall rack for the Wadax gear and why it is located between the speakers? After you complete the set up, I would be curious to read your thoughts on the M7 strengths. Thank you.

 

[sbo6]

View attachment 147263

Beautiful!

 

[LL21]

View attachment 147263

Intrigued the system has dual REL 32s...was that the owner's request/decision or was that part of your recommendation to the owner? What is the difference with and without?

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, could you explain the reason for the tall rack for the Wadax gear and why it is located between the speakers? After you complete the set up, I would be curious to read your thoughts on the M7 strengths. Thank you.

It’s a temporary solution until the permanent one arrives . The Massif rack behind it was not ordered to house a full Wadax system
There is however a future solution coming to house everything.

 

[Elliot G.]

Intrigued the system has dual REL 32s...was that the owner's request/decision or was that part of your recommendation to the owner? What is the difference with and without?

Not my recommendation these belong to the owner.
I would have recommended Gobel Divin Sovereign as I believe they are absolutely incredible and IMO nothing comes close

 

[gds7368]

Intrigued the system has dual REL 32s...was that the owner's request/decision or was that part of your recommendation to the owner? What is the difference with and without?

I'm very interested in the ideas behind subwoofers in this system as well ... I'm on the verge of trying two REL31s or two REL32s in my main system (28 ft x 21 ft room, 20 ft ceiling, with large openings into the adjacent rooms) with my M6 speakers

 

[sbo6]

I'm very interested in the ideas behind subwoofers in this system as well ... I'm on the verge of trying two REL31s or two REL32s in my main system (28 ft x 21 ft room, 20 ft ceiling, with large openings into the adjacent rooms) with my M6 speakers

I'm curious why you're intrigued. Do you think rom modes care about the size of your mains? If anything larger speakers commonly further exacerbate room modes more so than smaller ones.

 

[sbo6]

In my experience noise effects speaker positioning in a big way. This is basically for the reason (and more) that I expressed above. If I have a digital source that is extremely noisy then that is going to cause the pitch to be higher which in turn means I will have to adjust the placement of the midrange and tweeter relative to my ear to get a proper balance. If I remove all of this noise then the pitch drops and things will become clearer. I would need to adjust for this change. For clarity, I am not talking about moving the speaker inches but rather milimeter(s) and less.

One can easily measure with REW (for example) the frequency response or pitch. Are you saying that moving a speaker less than a millimeter will display a high frequency difference / pitch? Because I can tell you with utter confidence it won't.

 

[sbo6]

Not my recommendation these belong to the owner.
I would have recommended Gobel Divin Sovereign as I believe they are absolutely incredible and IMO nothing comes close

Elliot, I'd be curious to know what other subwoofers you compared the Gobel Divin Sovereign subwoofer to. Thanks in advance for your feedback.


Steve

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, I'd be curious to know what other subwoofers you compared the Gobel Divin Sovereign subwoofer to. Thanks in advance for your feedback.


Steve

I’ll answer your question this way since comparing things is not what I do. My reference is music not other products.
I never liked subs anywhere I ever heard them . Even back in the day with the IRS or Betas etc I always could hear that they just didn’t do what the speakers did on many levels . This means I was listening to items that were different.
The Gobel sub was the First time I did not experience that I could and others have as well integrated them where they just worked. The bass on Oliver’s speakers is on my opinion the best I have ever experienced in and home audio system . These subs are controlled from your tablet or phone and can do so many things including phase in 1 degree increments.
There is no hum like on many others and far more control.
Comparison mean very little as integration and work with experience make all the difference IMO

 

[gds7368]

I'm curious why you're intregued. Do you think rom modes care about the size of your mains? If anything larger speakers commonly further exacerbate room modes moreso than smaller ones.

My cartridge slights accentuates bass, and the result is fuller, more holistic, and better sounding music in my main listening room. Digital by contrast is universally leaner, while its midrange and treble can sound excellent. I’m eager to see what paired subwoofers would bring to the sound.