Magico M9 vs. Magico Ultimate 3 Horn- Box vs. Horn! Which will be better? In which ways?

[Carlos269]

Doesn't the Magico Ultimate Horn system convert the entire audio signal the digital?

Why would any audiophile who values analog want this result?

The reason why using a digital crossover is best when dealing with multi-way horn loudspeakers is because a digital crossover gives one the ability to time-align the various drivers or horn openings. This is crucial to achieving great sound out of multi-way horn loaded speakers. Without digital time/distance alignment the results are compromised. You can physically time align the horns but this would need to be done on location based on the listening position and the driver and horn movements would have to be indexed and calibrated.

i have a 4 way active horn system that run through a digital crossover to set the delay for each driver from the listening position and the results is phenomenal and could not be achieved as efficiently without the digital delays.

it is not the route that you take but rather the destination that matters and for multi-way complex horn assemblies, digitally time aligning the sound sources is the best way to go. I have both types of multi-way horn loaded systems in the same room and once you hear what digital time aligning the drivers/horn opening does for the sound, it is very obvious that mechanical/physical alignment and use of a simple analog crossover is a compromise.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The reason why using a digital crossover is best when dealing with multi-way horn loudspeakers is because a digital crossover gives one the ability to time-align the various drivers or horn openings. This is crucial to achieving great sound out of multi-way horn loaded speakers. Without digital time/distance alignment the results are compromised. You can physically time align the horns but this would need to be done on location based on the listening position and the driver and horn movements would have to be indexed and calibrated.

i have a 4 way active horn system that run through a digital crossover to set the delay for each driver from the listening position and the results is phenomenal and could not be achieved as efficiently without the digital delays.

it is not the route that you take but rather the destination that matters and for multi-way complex horn assemblies, digitally time aligning the sound sources is the best way to go. I have both types of multi-way horn loaded systems in the same room and once you hear what digital time aligning the drivers/horn opening does for the sound, it is very obvious that mechanical/physical alignment and use of a simple analog crossover is a compromise.

forget what might perform the best for a minute.

the marketplace was not willing to ignore the digital crossover for the Magico Ultimate. which turned out to be a death knell for that direction.

never heard them myself, so i can't say whether the digital crossover was a performance issue. if i had a desire and ability to consider them, it would have stopped me. i use a Trinnov dsp processor in my home theater for a 9.3.6 speaker set-up. that is where it makes sense. YMMV.

with 2 channel you should be able to fix the room and stay analog. Carlos, not saying your digital crossover is not the holy grail. it could be. just not the 2 channel road for me.

 

[HenryD]

forget what might perform the best for a minute.

the marketplace was not willing to ignore the digital crossover for the Magico Ultimate. which turned out to be a death knell for that direction.

never heard them myself...

How do you know (I believe lots of big horns uses digital XO)?
Maybe its the horn look? I can assure you that the M9 will be 'easier' to sneak under my wife nose, if I had to choose

 

[andromedaaudio]

How do you know (I believe lots of big horns uses digital XO)?

I have heard Meridian LINN Grimm and a whole lot of digital others at the last show and at dealers .
Afaic its a dead end digital road , unless A wolf has pulled of the impossible with his horn .
It looks well made id give him that

 

[jeff1225]

The reason why using a digital crossover is best when dealing with multi-way horn loudspeakers is because a digital crossover gives one the ability to time-align the various drivers or horn openings. This is crucial to achieving great sound out of multi-way horn loaded speakers. Without digital time/distance alignment the results are compromised. You can physically time align the horns but this would need to be done on location based on the listening position and the driver and horn movements would have to be indexed and calibrated.

i have a 4 way active horn system that run through a digital crossover to set the delay for each driver from the listening position and the results is phenomenal and could not be achieved as efficiently without the digital delays.

it is not the route that you take but rather the destination that matters and for multi-way complex horn assemblies, digitally time aligning the sound sources is the best way to go. I have both types of multi-way horn loaded systems in the same room and once you hear what digital time aligning the drivers/horn opening does for the sound, it is very obvious that mechanical/physical alignment and use of a simple analog crossover is a compromise.

Physical time alignment is done by the dealer installing all of the top of the line Wilson speakers. It would just have been part of the installation process for the Ultimates like it is done for the similar priced WAMM and XVX. When I saw that Magico was using a digital crossover, I realized that this wasn't a serious product for the market, just a one off.

 

[Carlos269]

Physical time alignment is done by the dealer installing all of the top of the line Wilson speakers. It would just have been part of the installation process for the Ultimates like it is done for the similar priced WAMM and XVX. When I saw that Magico was using a digital crossover, I realized that this wasn't a serious product for the market, just a one off.

The difference being the limitation of physical time aligning being restricted to minor alignments in the short mechanical travel. In the case of the Wilson WAMM the drivers are closely aligned and the alignment needed are relatively minor. When you are using various horns in a stacked arrangement with various horn exit lengths the alignments are more involved.

 

[jeff1225]

The difference being the limitation of physical time aligning being restricted to miner alignments in the short mechanical travel. In the case of the Wilson WAMM the drivers are closely aligned and the alignment needed are relatively minor. When you are using various horns in a stacked arrangement with various horn exit lengths the alignments are more involved.

Absolutely agree.

 

[HenryD]

Googled the Ultimate XO. Here is what I found:

“Three crossover options are offered for the Ultimate. The first is a traditional passive crossover that allows the system to be driven by just one amplifier for the upper four drivers, with a second amplifier driving the direct-radiating woofer. The second option is an active analog crossover that requires ten amplifier channels (for stereo)... Finally, the Ultimate can be fitted with a digital crossover...“

MAGICO Ultimate Loudspeaker - The Absolute Sound

MAGICO Ultimate Loudspeaker -

www.theabsolutesound.com

 

[Carlos269]

Absolutely agree.

The steps or incremental alignment in the digital domain are also finer and can be done in terms of time or distance. This digital delays are very powerful and allow you to position the center image wherever you want, which is great for my asymmetrically positioned active 4-way horn system.

 

[jeff1225]

The steps or incremental alignment in the digital domain are also finer and can be done in terms of time or distance. This digital delays are very powerful and allow you to position the center image wherever you want, which is great for my asymmetrically positioned active 4-way horn system.

And absolutely kill the sound. If you haven't heard a physically time aligned horn, I highly recommend you find one. It's the difference between listening to an MP3 or a vinyl record, night and day.

 

[Carlos269]

forget what might perform the best for a minute.

the marketplace was not willing to ignore the digital crossover for the Magico Ultimate. which turned out to be a death knell for that direction.

never heard them myself, so i can't say whether the digital crossover was a performance issue. if i had a desire and ability to consider them, it would have stopped me. i use a Trinnov dsp processor in my home theater for a 9.3.6 speaker set-up. that is where it makes sense. YMMV.

with 2 channel you should be able to fix the room and stay analog. Carlos, not saying your digital crossover is not the holy grail. it could be. just not the 2 channel road for me.

If you get a chance to play with a high quality digital crossover then you will hear the power that it brings. Digitally time aligning multi-way horns is like focusing a camera lens. So many here are always talking about coherency of multi-way/multi-driver loudspeakers and that has to do with time alignment. Speaker designers accomplish this during the design phase, but elaborate horn systems, like mine, tend to be a DIY effort of putting together horns, bass bins, and tweeter/super-tweeters without any calculated positioning and of various focal-lengths and this is where the power of the digital crossover comes in.

Interesting that the traveling horn enthusiast has not yet discovered this during his travels, or perhaps those he has visited are not as sophisticated with respect to optimizing their pieced together horn systems.

 

[Carlos269]

And absolutely kill the sound. If you haven't heard a physically time aligned horn, I highly recommend you find one. It's the difference between listening to an MP3 or a vinyl record, night and day.

I beg to differ and I have both in the same room. Why do you think that digital crossovers degrade the sound? Curious to explore this notion that everything digital is bad when you specifically compare it to vinyl playback, which has more inherent degradations. Let’s go through the compare and contrast shall we?

 

[andromedaaudio]

If you haven't heard a physically time aligned horn, I highly recommend you find one.

I still have 49.000 unused airmiles , would that be sufficient to find one ??

 

[jeff1225]

I beg to differ and I have both in the same room. Why do you think that digital crossovers degrade the sound? curious to explore this notion that everything digital is bad when you specifically compare it to vinyl playback which has more inherent degradations. Let’s go through the compare and contrast shall we?

Clearly there is no need to continue this conversation, enjoy your MP3's.

 

[jeff1225]

Clearly there is no need to continue this conversation, enjoy your MP3's.

On your side of the Atlantic I would listen to Cessero and Tune horns.

 

[Carlos269]

Clearly there is no need to continue this conversation, enjoy your MP3's.

You don’t get off the hook that easily. You have made a series of uneducated statements and have provided no supporting evidence.

As Gene Simmons says ”You wanted the best…..you got the best” now let’s dance.

 

[Audire]

Nothing wrong with having multiple flagships.

 

[jeff1225]

You don’t get off the hook that easily. You have made a series of uneducated statements and have provided no supporting evidence.

As Gene Simmons says ”You wanted the best…..you got the best” now let’s dance.

Carlos,
You are clearly a collector of "stuff" but have failed to put together a compelling system that anyone on this forum has heard. Frankly, I don't know if anyone could fit into that disaster you call a room.

Now you make claims that although the vast amount of audiophiles has disdain for digital crossovers, they are somehow superior.

I have not interest in any of your ideas or the garage sale you call your audio room.

Good luck.

 

[Rhapsody]

Nothing wrong with having multiple flagships.

The M9 is the Magico flagship. The Ultimate was designed 10+ years ago and has not been in production now for 5+ years.

 

[Carlos269]

Carlos,
You are clearly a collector of "stuff" but have failed to put together a compelling system that anyone on this forum has heard. Frankly, I don't know if anyone could fit into that disaster you call a room.

Now you make claims that although the vast amount of audiophiles has disdain for digital crossovers, they are somehow superior.

I have not interest in any of your ideas or the garage sale you call your audio room.

Good luck.

You cannot offend me so don’t try that approach. Not factoring in my science and engineering technical academic and professional background, I have been in this hobby for over 35 years and have more experience and knowledge under my finger nail than you will ever reach.

Why not have an educated discussion. Here, I will start it:

Digital crossovers allow you to make real- time adjustments in the frequency and time domains, while typical analog crossovers only allow frequency and amplitude adjustments. Performing time delay adjustments in the analog domain does not lead to precision and fine adjustments. Furthermore, anyone who knows electronics knows that the signal degrades in the analog domain when it is processed, while it remains intact (to 64 bit floating point precision) when processed in the digital domain.

Bring it on and let’s see what you got.