Magico M9

[Bobvin]

Although I often enjoy your writings and style it seems to me we are loosing our time discussing this particular WAMM listening session and opinions on it. IMHO it was completely atypical - and shows a strong negative bias towards the WAMM's.

Sorry, but reading it sounded like you were describing your last dentist session, not a search for good sound quality. BTW, one reason I do not fly to audio shows the same day is that I know after a fly my hearing can be affected for a few hours.

You are clearly a more righteous man than myself. Next time I am invited to go listen to speakers I could never afford for the pleasure of hearing them I will be sure to travel a day in advance, get a massage and have a nice meal before hand.

I heard the WAMM long before I heard the M9, when I was still a Wilson owner, and long before any affiliation with Rhapsody who sells Magico. Technically I am restrained from selling Magico as there is a dealer in Portland. But that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my report. I tried my best to describe the conditions of my listening session, that I was tired and exhausted, and that the showroom was a poor demo environment. I also said I might have a completely different reaction if the Wilsons were demo’d in a better environment.

Further, if there was any bias it was a negative bias towards Magico as my prior experiences of Magico speakers left me wanting for more visceral impact from the bass. If I were to have been asked in advance of hearing the two speakers I would have thought I’d have more of a “meh” response to the Magico.

Neither of my visits to hear these speakers was for any review or comparison purposes. I simply wrote my experience. Your interpretation of that is completely on you. Report back, please, after you have heard both speakers.

 

[microstrip]

That’s a very interesting comment. I don’t remember seeing any advertisements for horn speakers in TAS.

Ii probably shows how reduced was their market share and the reader interest on them. A magazine needs readers to be profitable and survive, no point focusing on products that the market does not accept. If readers bought the magazine because of the horn reviews the reviewers would carry them.

The high-end is an industry that must generate money, not a charity.

Anyway why spending money in advertisement for a population that mainly feels that vintage will always sound better, independently of the expertise of the current designers and current technological developments?

 

[PeterA]

Ii probably shows how reduced was their market share and the reader interest on them. A magazine needs readers to be profitable and survive, no point focusing on products that the market does not accept. If readers bought the magazine because of the horn reviews the reviewers would carry them.

The high-end is an industry that must generate money, not a charity.

Anyway why spending money in advertisement for a population that mainly feels that vintage will always sound better, independently of the expertise of the current designers and current technological developments?

perhaps there’s no interest because magazines don’t advertise or review these types of systems. The result is little exposure and therefor little interest.

The High End industry is often about making money although there are stories that it can be a charity for some well-connected. For others it’s simply fun.

I have no idea what you mean about a population that will always prefer vintage. That must be so tiny in the US that the US magazines don’t even consider them as an audience.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Neither of my visits to hear these speakers was for any review or comparison purposes. I simply wrote my experience. Your interpretation of that is completely on you. Report back, please, after you have heard both speakers.

Yes, I just posted my interpretation of your writings - it is why we come to WBF.

If I ever listen to the M9 it will probably be in our distributor showroom - the same place where I listened to the WAMMs and XLFs. It is a large treated room, that was selected by Wilson Audio for the presentation of the WAMMs in Europe. And considering that I have also often listened to Magico Q7 mk2 and MPro in this room, even with the presence of Alon Wolf, I am already sure I will be able to go through an emotional musical, extreme and rewarding experience, but surely different from what I got from the WAMMs. But unfortunately I do not expect that my writing skills will be able to fully transmit it to our members

 

[bonzo75]

for a population that mainly feels that vintage will always sound better, independently of the expertise of the current designers and current technological developments?

This is not true at all. Those who like vintage will obviously like horns, for western electric, JBL, Altec etc did not make cones in those days. Why would they?

But go around the Munich show and you will see a large proportion of modern day horns, and many supporters. Right or wrong, the most popular horns today are still the Avantgarde smaller models. There are many other EU companies with teeny weeny horns that sell well. Just that AG is the only real horn company that has been around for years and set up a good distribution channel. Cessaro has now established a worldwide brand, but very few that way.

 

[microstrip]

This is not true at all. Those who like vintage will obviously like horns, for western electric, JBL, Altec etc did not make cones in those days. Why would they?

But go around the Munich show and you will see a large proportion of modern day horns, and many supporters. Right or wrong, the most popular horns today are still the Avantgarde smaller models. There are many other EU companies with teeny weeny horns that sell well. Just that AG is the only real horn company that has been around for years and set up a good distribution channel. Cessaro has now established a worldwide brand, but very few that way.

I was addressing mainly the WBF population, not the Munich show. My point is that the pressure on anyone wanting to go horns in WBF is not encouraging versus modern horns when compared to vintage. Even you seem to prefer the unobtainium TD4003 to the easily available TD4001 ...

 

[bonzo75]

I was addressing mainly the WBF population, not the Munich show. My point is that the pressure on anyone wanting to go horns in WBF is not encouraging versus modern horns when compared to vintage. Even you seem to prefer the unobtainium TD4003 to the easily available TD4001 ...

The 4003 is known to be better than 4001 by many, including Ralph. The fact that something is better or preferred does not mean that is the only market. But that is a separate topic of what's best, which makes good discussion. If I was a manufacturer, I would have used 4001 or radians instead of the 4003. For modern cone fans, is that WAMM and M9 are so good that a market does not exist for other models and brands? Of course not.

even on WBF, there is a large population preferring modern day horns over vintage.

 

[jeff1225]

Disagree that Avantgardes are best with SS. i have heard dozens of AG demos now and the best were always with lowish powered tube gear. Their SS amps with their horns sounds VERY forward and aggressive...

I didnt say they were better, just said they could be used with SS.

 

[HenryD]

More M9 photos:

Magico M9 Speakers SN 001

Mono & Stereo High-End Audio Magazine: Magico - Nagra - Tidal Audio - Wilson Audio - MSB - Totaldac - Living Voice - Taiko Audio - Aries Cerat -Thrax

www.monoandstereo.com

 

[jeff1225]

More M9 photos:

Magico M9 Speakers SN 001

Mono & Stereo High-End Audio Magazine: Magico - Nagra - Tidal Audio - Wilson Audio - MSB - Totaldac - Living Voice - Taiko Audio - Aries Cerat -Thrax

www.monoandstereo.com

I have to say the industrial design of these speakers is fantastic.

 

[HenryD]

What's impressive is sticking 2X15", front loading, and still look slick.

 

[Tango]

Although I often enjoy your writings and style it seems to me we are loosing our time discussing this particular WAMM listening session and opinions on it.

It seems to you and probably you only Micro. Listening impression is how he would describe his experience toward what he heard from two different systems. Bob did just that. And he admitted + mentioned out all the variables that involved. He was decent enough not saying negatives of WAMM...maybe he did not find any. He just said he got a WOW experience from the M9 system not the WAMM system. I am glad he has a ground on his own not being so diplomatic writing about it. It is well worth my time reading. Thank you @Bobvin.

Please do not talk about loosing time reading when we have seen so many dog fights involving you in so many threads on uncountable occasions. Those are not only loosing time but wasting time and we were just polite enough to keep it to ourself until now.

 

[morricab]

I didnt say they were better, just said they could be used with SS.

What’s the point of that statement? All speakers can be used with SS...doesn’t mean they should be...

 

[jeff1225]

What’s the point of that statement? All speakers can be used with SS...doesn’t mean they should be...

My point was that Avantgardes can be dropped into any reviewers system for a trial. The brand actually prefers SS and makes SS amps. THEY THINK that SS is best for their speakers. It's irrelevant what you think about what sounds better, that's not what the subject of the conversation is.

And of course you think that SET's would sound better and your Odeons are better than Avantgardes and yada yada.

 

[microstrip]

The 4003 is known to be better than 4001 by many, including Ralph. The fact that something is better or preferred does not mean that is the only market. But that is a separate topic of what's best, which makes good discussion. If I was a manufacturer, I would have used 4001 or radians instead of the 4003.

Interesting. Which Radian do you consider superior to the 4001?

For modern cone fans, is that WAMM and M9 are so good that a market does not exist for other models and brands? Of course not.

Not the question. No one tells that the old WAMM is much superior to the current WAMM.

even on WBF, there is a large population preferring modern day horns over vintage.

Wow, I would love to see someone debating why he prefers the sound of Trio's to Bionor's or WE's !

 

[microstrip]

It seems to you and probably you only Micro. Listening impression is how he would describe his experience toward what he heard from two different systems. Bob did just that. And he admitted + mentioned out all the variables that involved. He was decent enough not saying negatives of WAMM...maybe he did not find any. He just said he got a WOW experience from the M9 system not the WAMM system. I am glad he has a ground on his own not being so diplomatic writing about it. It is well worth my time reading. Thank you @Bobvin.

Please do not talk about loosing time reading when we have seen so many dog fights involving you in so many threads on uncountable occasions. Those are not only loosing time but wasting time and we were just polite enough to keep it to ourself until now.

Dear Tango,

Listening to some equipment in inadequate conditions and comparing the outcome with another equipment listened in the manufacturer listening room is not fair IMHO.

Bob is a dealer of competing brands. His overall comment on the WAMMs was negative, as could be expected in such conditions. Just adding "If The WAMM were shown in a suitable room I may have had a completely different take on them" does not help.

What you consider dog fights are most of the time debates on stereo fundamentals and the essence of the high-end. Sorry you are not able to understand and follow them - many seem to be able to do it.

 

[howiebrou]

Why all the agro against Bob's comments? He has been more than forthright in declaring his conflict and also the limitations of his comparisons. It's up to the reader to make up his own mind and not try and make it up for anyone else. Yes the Wamm room might not have been ideal but name me one that is. Even with the same room and same gear a room might be more suited to one speaker than another. C'est la vie. Get over it. I for one am quite happy to hear Bob's comments about the Wamm vs M9 given that he has actually heard them as opposed to some diatribe from those who haven't.

 

[bonzo75]

No one tells that the old WAMM is much superior to the current WAMM.



Wow, I would love to see someone debating why he prefers the sound of Trio's to Bionor's or WE's !

I am referring to the new WAMM. Just because someone likes the new wAMM or M9, they are not going to say lower models or other brands should not be sold. It is possible to like the ultimate and not have it.

Most of the modern horn owners who have been to Munich have heard the WEs. They may or may not like them more than their speakers, but that won't mean they will have WE over their speakers.

 

[bonzo75]

Why all the agro against Bob's comments? He has been more than forthright in declaring his conflict and also the limitations of his comparisons. It's up to the reader to make up his own mind and not try and make it up for anyone else. Yes the Wamm room might not have been ideal but name me one that is. Even with the same room and same gear a room might be more suited to one speaker than another. C'est la vie. Get over it. I for one am quite happy to hear Bob's comments about the Wamm vs M9 given that he has actually heard them as opposed to some diatribe from those who haven't.

Wilson usually loses coherence with size. E.g. Their Sasha 2 is the most coherent compared to Alexia 1 or the Alexandria variants. Magico does not have that issue so theoretically the M9 should be better with better, more integrated bass. All Magico needs to do is add some decay and tone, if they managed that with M9. The videos look promising

 

[andromedaaudio]

If magico wants to add decay and tone they should step away from their Aluminium alloy baffles , imo .


But instead use what wilson (or me myself) or Kharma in certain models use.
Same apllies to avalon if they would just add a 20 mm baffle plate made from either HPL ,( HAWE Celleron ), Pertinax it would improve decay / purity of tone / resolution a whole lot .
The speakers are also more " quit " giving the perception of more dynamic contrast
Aluminium absorbs/ stores energy it may be hard and strong but it aint as usefull as phenolic plates .

But hey who am i , they seem to be very succesfull


Phenolic sheet is a hard, dense material made by applying heat and pressure to layers of paper or glass cloth impregnated with synthetic resin. These layers of laminations are usually of cellulose paper, cotton fabrics, synthetic yarn fabrics, glass fabrics or unwoven fabrics.