Magico M9

[HenryD]

Thanks for the kind words Tang, much appreciated.

I am a crappy reviewer because I have not developed a set of criteria of my own, though I do think doing so will be good for me. I have an engineering background but have never really approached this hobby from an analytical perspective, mostly letting my subjective senses determine what I like or do not like. Does a system move me, grab me, connect me with the music? Is it balanced? Can it rock? Can it be delicate, nuanced, and sensual? Beyond that, speaking for myself, I am not confident making quick judgement as I have been infatuated with something only for that to pass when I learn the shortcomings — which sometimes means living with a new component for a while.

Back to my WAMM vs M9 comparison. The WAMM were part of a Dagostino / dCS / Transparent system. They were in a dealer showroom in Seattle. I was invited for a private audition and travelled up from Portland with a friend. It was a snotty, rainy, wet day and the drive sucked — on the freeway with road spray from semi-trucks and heavy traffic. I was tired, stressed, and probably carrying some anxiety from the drive. (argh, Seattle traffic!) The dealer showroom was too small for the speakers, so it was a very near-field setup. And, it isn’t a great showroom overall to begin with. The dealer had a list of music he played, lots of classical which was boring, but the sound was very, very good. Depth, detail, power and slam. When we turned off the subs it was still very, very good but the subs definitely added visceral energy to the room, adding meat to the bone. When it was over I remember thinking awesome speakers, but I specifically remember talking about the experience on the drive home. My friend and I both had the same conclusion — amazing speakers but neither of us had a real “wow” experience. When I got home my wife was afraid — she was worried I‘d be talking about speakers for the next several week. I did not. I described the experience and that was that. I spoke very little about the WAMM.

In comparison, after hearing the Diesis Roma at Bob’s place a couple years back, I couldn’t stop talking about them. Perhaps these speakers, while they would have been a stretch, were within the realm of affordability so that fueled my passion? I told all my audio buddies about them, wishing we could make a trip to NYC for a listen. I blogged about them here in the forum. I told everyone in the Portland Audio Club. I compared them to my Wilsons every time I listened for the next several weeks at least. I was smitten.

When I flew to California to hear the M9 it was during covid last spring. I do not carry much Covid anxiety, but the anxiety was everywhere. Traveling with a mask sucked. I hate masks. When we landed I was hoping there would be food at the airport but nothing. We got to Magico and Alon very gratuitously had one of his crew drive over and pickup some sandwiches. We sat in the company lunchroom, socially distanced, and got acquainted. I had lots of questions, and Alon was kind and patient in answering them all. Then we got a great tour of the factory before stepping into the listening room. The real reason for my trip was to hear the Pilium kit, Alon was showing the M9 with the Alexander pre-amp and two pair of Hercules mono-blocks. The DAC was the MSB Select, I do not recall the cable loom. The showroom at Magico sounded and felt a lot like my own listening room, it was quiet yet not dead, and it was large so we didn’t have a near-field seat. Sadly, we weren’t able to spend as long as we wished (I was accompanied by the same friend who’d traveled with me to hear the WAMM.) Alon was choosing the music, he did not subject me to endless classical, but from the very first notes I was gobsmacked. The speakers, for all their imposing stature, disappeared and there was only glorious music that filled the room, wall to wall, floor to ceiling. Small triangles and bells floated six feet above the speakers (no, I don’t recall any of the tracks played.) Everything was in perfect proportion and scale (OK, if I had one little nit there was one track where the singer’s voice seemed scaled up a little bit like she had a very large head.) Bass was remarkably clean, fast, deep, tight with incredible tonal density.

On the flight back my friend and I remarked how much more we were impressed by the M9 vs. the WAMM, how much more we were drawn into the music. I blogged a little about it here, and my wife heard about it for days. It was covid time, so we were not having audio club meetings — I’m sure I would have told everyone.

Not much of a detailed reviewer’s notes of comparison. One pair of speakers/system left me with a “yeah, so?” experience, the other pair had me thinking about, talking about them for days. That is my experience. If The WAMM were shown in a suitable room I may have had a completely different take on them. (I would love to hear them with the Pilium kit — the Dagostino gear is the only thing the Seattle dealer seems to pair with the bigger Wilson models, and while excellent gear I have never really been wowed. But that‘s just me.)

Thank you Bob, for sharing, a shame the thread has been hijacked by cynics. Hopefully, we can get back to the thread subject.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Cables are free and everything else is 50% retail. Its well known and is what it is.

If you see industry accommodation as "part of your compensation" then you are not an impartial reviewer. This is why I only trust Consumer Reports for reviews on consumer goods.

OTOH when the choices have equivalent discounts, then one can see it as a level playing field. for the top reviewers for sure they can mostly pick and choose. down the reviewer ladder maybe not so easy to say.

i think you decide how cynical you want to view things. personally i look at reviews based on that reviewer's long term consistency. are there reviewers who are doing it for 'system building' purposes? nah! but i can see how some connect those dots.

i appreciate the effort from reviewers, i enjoy reading most of them, and so give them the benefit of the doubt. in the last 22 years have bought one major item based solely on a review. and it was a home run (bought it sight unseen from ddk).

 

[jeff1225]

OTOH when the choices have equivalent discounts, then one can see it as a level playing field. for the top reviewers for sure they can mostly pick and choose. down the reviewer ladder maybe not so easy to say.

i think you decide how cynical you want to view things. personally i look at reviews based on that reviewer's long term consistency. are there reviewers who are doing it for 'system building' purposes? nah! but i can see how some connect those dots.

i appreciate the effort from reviewers, i enjoy reading most of them, and so give them the benefit of the doubt. in the last 22 years have bought one major item based solely on a review. and it was a home run (bought it sight unseen from ddk).

I remember when JV was asked why more of the reviewers didn't review horn speakers he said (paraphrasing) 'our reviewers are not interested in horn speakers.' Can you imaging a car maginzing not reviewing a major category of cars because of interest in the reviewing staff?

As a cynic I read JV's comments as "our reviewers are not interested in owning horn speakers. "

 

[PeterA]

I remember when JV was asked why more of the reviewers didn't review horn speakers he said (paraphrasing) 'our reviewers are not interested in horn speakers.' Can you imaging a car maginzing not reviewing a major category of cars because of interest in the reviewing staff?

As a cynic I read JV's comments as "our reviewers are not interested in owning horn speakers. "

That’s a very interesting comment. I don’t remember seeing any advertisements for horn speakers in TAS.

 

[HenryD]

JV reviewed the Avantgarde, he moved on, like many of us...

 

[tima]

Cables are free and everything else is 50% retail. Its well known and is what it is.

That is simply not true. Maybe it should be - reviewing cables can be a boring thankless task. You toss this stuff out there and maybe it catches with some of those with an 'us versus them' attitude towards seller and buyer, or those that think anyone who makes a product for profit is evil, or people who just like to keep things riled up. But what you say is false.

 

[howiebrou]

That is simply not true. Maybe it should be - reviewing cables can be a boring thankless task. You toss this stuff out there and maybe it catches with some of those with an 'us versus them' attitude towards seller and buyer, or those that think anyone who makes a product for profit is evil, or people who just like to keep things riled up. But what you say is false.

I certainly hope it is false. 50% off retail is rubbish. Lots of us do better than that as consumers!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I remember when JV was asked why more of the reviewers didn't review horn speakers he said (paraphrasing) 'our reviewers are not interested in horn speakers.' Can you imaging a car maginzing not reviewing a major category of cars because of interest in the reviewing staff?

As a cynic I read JV's comments as "our reviewers are not interested in owning horn speakers. "

i think in North America/USA, the horn/SET culture, and the economic support for promoting it, has almost been a zero for decades, with few isolated exceptions. and no brick and mortar presence for horns. maybe the European energy for horns is taking root slowly here more recently, but still just spotty for any big commerce with horns.

reviewers follow the focus of the listeners to be relevant. what else can we expect?

i do appreciate those doing horns and hope it gets more prevalent. i'd like to explore them myself but not much opportunity. but don't blame reviewers. these things happen organically.

you can't compare hifi to cars, there are zero DIY cars due to the laws. and mostly horns in this country are vintage or DIY to some degree. car reviewers review vintage about as often as hifi reviewer review vintage. i've seen it, but rare.

 

[Audire]

I don’t know of any reviews coming on the M9, but from what I understand there a new one coming on the A5 which has some trickle down from the M9. The A5 has won both Stereophile's Loudspeaker of the Year AND Product of the Year awards! Check out the Dec issue.

 

[bryans]

I certainly hope it is false. 50% off retail is rubbish. Lots of us do better than that as consumers!

Hmm you get over 50% off gear? Is this off new or used gear?

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I certainly hope it is false. 50% off retail is rubbish. Lots of us do better than that as consumers!

I have never got 50% off any hifi I have purchased.I wish I did.

 

[Ron Resnick]

There were instances of, ahem, “long term loans” that were effectively tantamount to free...

I've always believed, and posted, that I think long term "loans" are unethical, and should be an embarrassment to any reviewer who operates that way.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My ethical issues in the industry concern long-term "loans," and the suspiciously high correlation between the number of advertising pages in the magazines and positive reviews of those components in those magazines. I see correlation; I see an argument for suspicion. I am not necessarily suggesting causation.

In contrast, I think accommodation pricing to reviewers who purchase the component under review is extremely informative. Let's say the reviewer gets an accommodation discount of 40%. 60% of a lot of money is still a lot of money! I think Michael Fremer is telling us the honest truth when he suggested that he had to dig very deep to able to buy the Wilson Audio XVX even with an accommodation discount.

I find it valuable information to know that the reviewer put his money where his pen is. I think a reviewer buying a component, even at an accommodation price, says a lot.

It's natural that reviewers want to review things they think they might like. PeterA might enjoy reviewing a cartridge, but I don't think he would be excited to receive an assignment to review a Bluetooth streaming device.

I don't see a problem with a reviewer giving a component a positive review and then buying the component. In fact I like it when the reviewer buys the component! That actually tells me more than a reviewer who gives a component a positive review but then does not buy it.

I might even be willing to put the point more strongly. Between:

A) reading a review and not knowing whether the reviewer bought the component, or

B) not reading the review, and knowing ONLY whether or not the reviewer bought the component

-- I think B) might actually embody more conclusive and concise information than A). (Of course we would miss out on the fun of knowing why the reviewer enjoyed the component so much.)

What do you think? Which gives you a more dispositive, all in one word, data point? A) or B)?

 

[rando]

Can you imagine a car magazine not reviewing a major category of cars because of interest in the reviewing staff? [ed. grammar]

Thus ridding their readership of need to endure the dual scourges of CVT and SUV staining the low to mid end market? Travel back 15 years and kick that one into some editorial pants.

As a cynic I read JV's comments as "our reviewers are not interested in owning horn speakers. "

Maybe if the entire staff hocked their inner city belongings while they were off playing with horns in their newly renovated barns. Diverting focus outside slick urbane designs and fast product cycles would allow returning to the quality of content defining TAS or any other heyday of technical print magazines.

This is absurd, you do realize.

 

[howiebrou]

My ethical issues in the industry concern long-term "loans," and the suspiciously high correlation between the number of advertising pages in the magazines and positive reviews of those components in those magazines. I see correlation; I see an argument for suspicion. I am not necessarily suggesting causation.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Regarding the whole audio business in general .
My point is there is just no progress .
Its merely different shiny boxes you see and new numbers on speakerdesigns
I hope munchen will change my mind somewhat as the dutch show didnt , but i doubt it .
Regarding magico i would still take the old V 3 model over the A series i heard at the show anytime
Magazines get a endless stream of new models to review which obviously have to be marked as better then the previous model to keep the industry going .
Regarding all the solid state i heard for example i d still take ML 32 / Halcro over any solid state i ve heard to date .
Convergent is for me a real stand out brand which actually delivers.


Ps reviewer cables for free ?
That would explain a lot , its probably the only way you can get reviewers reviewing them .
Afaic its a complete nonsense industry designed for people who are looking for a quick " fix " for their system

 

[tima]

I've always believed, and posted, that I think long term "loans" are unethical, and should be an embarrassment to any reviewer who operates that way.

What are your "ethical issues" with long term loans? Try stating your principles as general maxims to apply everywhere, not solely to audio.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Try stating your principles as general maxims to apply everywhere, not solely to audio.

Why? I don't think it necessarily makes sense that the same exact maxims should apply to every industry, everywhere. We are not discussing the Ten Commandments.

 

[Ron Resnick]

What are your "ethical issues" with long term loans?

I think that being allowed to keep expensive equipment provided you say nice things about it is unscrupulous. Don't you?

I think gifts of equipment, er, excuse me -- long-term "loans" -- are too close to bribery for my comfort. Yes, the manufacturer receives a benefit from the public seeing his/her product permanently on the reviewer's "associated equipment" list, but I still think the practice stinks.

Even worse was the threat years ago by a reviewer to an amplifier manufacturer that his component will receive a bad review unless he allows the reviewer to keep the component.

 

[KeithR]

i think in North America/USA, the horn/SET culture, and the economic support for promoting it, has almost been a zero for decades, with few isolated exceptions. and no brick and mortar presence for horns. maybe the European energy for horns is taking root slowly here more recently, but still just spotty for any big commerce with horns.

reviewers follow the focus of the listeners to be relevant. what else can we expect?

i do appreciate those doing horns and hope it gets more prevalent. i'd like to explore them myself but not much opportunity. but don't blame reviewers. these things happen organically.

There are horns reviewed in the US but people here just don’t seem to include JBL, Volti, Klipsch, etc.

the bigger issue is dealers don’t want to carry the larger ones as they don’t sell well.