Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers

[DaveC]

Best t Dave, that is exactly what a lot of gear does and people swoon over the “detail” and “resolution “.

Sorry but I don't understand your post? "Best t Dave" is perplexing... and the rest of it taken out of context is meaningless. People "swoon" over all sorts of things, doesn't mean you or I might share the same tastes. For example white chocolate... apparently some like it, but I think it's just a tasteless waxy substance that may or may not be food.

 

[Lagonda]

I think no one will be angry with you , the mob that has no large experience with Wilson speakers along the years except at shows and shops will applaud your comment that is due probably to irony or some ignorance on the Wilson Audio speaker voicing. Unfortunately Wilson Audio newsletters are not accessible any more in their site, they explained a lot about it, but many David Wilson interviews are accessible to anyone really interested in the subject - he even took the care to explain precisely what means voicing a speaker to him.

BTW, remember that hearing loss is usually joined by intolerance to some high frequencies and other hearing problems - the balance is much more complex than you seem to consider.

And yes, surely the old gents at WBF that own Wilson Audio speakers, particularly the large ones, are half deaf and love fake sound ...

I am not sure the age induced hearing loss has tinnitus and high frequency intolerance the way noise/music induced hearing loss has. I think my dad just went quietly deaf with no extra penalties. On a positive note, he does enjoy turning of his hearing aid when his wife is talking to much.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Some days my system sounds so poor I just want to sell it, than the next day it’s excellent.I find this very frustrating.

Try signal grounding

 

[the sound of Tao]

I am not sure the age induced hearing loss has tinnitus and high frequency intolerance the way noise/music induced hearing loss has. I think my dad just went quietly deaf with no extra penalties. On a positive note, he does enjoy turning of his hearing aid when his wife is talking to much.

When we’re in a larger group as family (ah… yes those were the days) and someone starts talking politics I also watch for my Dad to turn off his hearing aids and then he just sits back and smiles. Wise dude my dad. My brothers ran a night club together for many years and suffer from industrial deafness… strangely their wives (who are nice enough in themselves) both have quite hard to bear voices yet it seems to make little difference to either of my brothers

I’m much happier still having my hearing though and have learned to just turn off internally or run to the beach for a swim. Considered avoidance can be a great skill.

 

[tima]

There is nothing to say for me on that. Wilson's problem was never there old and new tweeter, only Wiilson fans make a big deal out of it to justify purchase of the later Wilson. They have so many other issues like lack of coherence between drivers, bad boomy bass, poor tone, etc.

You would do well at Audiogon.

 

[morricab]

Sorry but I don't understand your post? "Best t Dave" is perplexing... and the rest of it taken out of context is meaningless. People "swoon" over all sorts of things, doesn't mean you or I might share the same tastes. For example white chocolate... apparently some like it, but I think it's just a tasteless waxy substance that may or may not be food.

Phone auto fill mistakes. Should read “But Dave”.

 

[morricab]

Sorry but I don't understand your post? "Best t Dave" is perplexing... and the rest of it taken out of context is meaningless. People "swoon" over all sorts of things, doesn't mean you or I might share the same tastes. For example white chocolate... apparently some like it, but I think it's just a tasteless waxy substance that may or may not be food.

It’s not out of context. Many people are interpreting these artifacts as high fidelity not as colorations.

 

[MarcelNL]

Try signal grounding

I think to recognize the effect, and it usually has to do with humidity...in my case in a house without AC and paper cones that is a more likely root cause IMO than grounding. And there is an outside effect, a friend has for a period checked with some audio mates of his (all pretty serious into audio) how sound was on what day/time of day sound and they found remarkable consistency amongst them.

 

[DaveC]

It’s not out of context. Many people are interpreting these artifacts as high fidelity not as colorations.

You've misunderstood. Your statement in the previous post was missing context, so I didn't understand what you're referring to or the point you're trying to make.

If you're simply trying to say that people misinterpret artifacts as detail then yes, I agree.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Has your system or the room changed at all in that time? Maybe it’s not just your ears.

Good point.my system has certainly changed but I have always used horn speakers.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Try signal grounding

Never heard of this before.

 

[bonzo75]

Seen a number of aphiles shifting from modern to vintage speakers. In fact perhaps all vintagers used to be modernists, but seldom if at all the other way round?

That is because lesser available gear is the next learning stage. So it is a next step. Current available gear is the first point of contact.

It is similar to, before youtube, what happened with music in the 80s and 90s. You would start with MTV top 20, pop stuff. Then as your tastes developed you would learn of 60s and 70s rock. When I satrted listening to Led Zep, my friends had a similar reaction - how can these old groups be good, let's listen to current.

Also, unless you or your parents grew up playing in an orchestra, discovering and appreciating classical from a few centuries back will be a more advanced step as you won't be exposed to it otherwise.

It is not so much as old vs new but what is easily available to get exposed to, vs what you find later as you keep on exploring and find new stuff. Lesser available stuff is actually new (to the listener). On this thread, those who have written against vintage or SET horns, actually have minimal exposure.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Try signal grounding

Can you explain this?

 

[morricab]

I think to recognize the effect, and it usually has to do with humidity...in my case in a house without AC and paper cones that is a more likely root cause IMO than grounding. And there is an outside effect, a friend has for a period checked with some audio mates of his (all pretty serious into audio) how sound was on what day/time of day sound and they found remarkable consistency amongst them.

There is often the nighttime listening effect where it sounds much better...usually cleaner power at night in urban areas. Clean power impacts sound quality a lot!

 

[MarcelNL]

There is often the nighttime listening effect where it sounds much better...usually cleaner power at night in urban areas. Clean power impacts sound quality a lot!

yeah that is a pretty remarkable effect, I was pointing at daytime listening...they could not find a plausible root cause (such as hot weather, days off etc) other than the observation the pattern was pretty similar across the group with members all over the country.

I 'make my own clean power' using a balanced 3KW isolation transformer, I now have SQ I used to get in the late evening all day and a slight improvement when the grid cleans up.

 

[morricab]

That is because lesser available gear is the next learning stage. So it is a next step. Current available gear is the first point of contact.

It is similar to, before youtube, what happened with music in the 80s and 90s. You would start with MTV top 20, pop stuff. Then as your tastes developed you would learn of 60s and 70s rock. When I satrted listening to Led Zep, my friends had a similar reaction - how can these old groups be good, let's listen to current.

Also, unless you or your parents grew up playing in an orchestra, discovering and appreciating classical from a few centuries back will be a more advanced step as you won't be exposed to it otherwise.

It is not so much as old vs new but what is easily available to get exposed to, vs what you find later as you keep on exploring and find new stuff. Lesser available stuff is actually new (to the listener). On this thread, those who have written against vintage or SET horns, actually have minimal exposure.

Some truth in this but not the whole story. With music it has been actually studied and the peak complexity of popular music was in the late 60s to early 70s. Modern pop music is dramatically less sophisticated. Think about this example: Yes Roundabout was a hit in 1971 and it is a very complex pop rock song. Such music exists today but far outside the mainstream. Classical is also far outside the mainstream although maybe streaming helps to tempt people to give a listen since they don’t have buy specific records. I know I discover a lot of great classical this way...

For hifi there is also the concept of scientific and technological progress. In every other technical field the progress has been immense and easily seen. The cousin to hifi, television, is easy to see the progress and no one really wants to go back to CRT TVs... the new ones are really and obviously better. Many people are convinced newer must be better...look at the progress in other areas of technology! How could 90 year old speakers conceivably compete??? It’s absurd right?!! Only nostalgia, desire to listen to colorations etc..., right??

 

[Addicted to hifi]

There is often the nighttime listening effect where it sounds much better...usually cleaner power at night in urban areas. Clean power impacts sound quality a lot!

I do as much nighttime listening as possible as it sounds much better than during the day.

 

[MarcelNL]

I do as much nighttime listening as possible as it sounds much better than during the day.

I also favor late night listening, not in the least because having a very inquisitive 5 year old around does not allow much listening to anything else than him ;-) In addition to clean power, the darkness also does sharpen our hearing.

 

[tima]

Also, unless you or your parents grew up playing in an orchestra, discovering and appreciating classical from a few centuries back will be a more advanced step as you won't be exposed to it otherwise.

Sadly, this is probably true. My grandfather played oboe and clarinet in Europe before coming to the States. My parents had no musical inclination - but they were smart enough to find out if any of his ability filtered through. I started piano lessons at 7 - my parents idea - then clarinet in 5th grade.

Schools at the elementary and middle level offer fewer and fewer opportunites for starting with an instrument - if they haven't cut programs entirely. This was/is a source of exposure to classical music that has dwindled. High Schools and University still have band and orchestra, but not so much introduction.

Many state universities continue to offer Musicology graduate studies as well as some schools in the UK and Canada. Musicology doesn't intersect much with audiophilery, but there seem to be folks who play music or know someone who plays music who have a home stereo.

Also, classical is expensive at the orchestral level, both to maintain an orchestra and facilities as well as attend. It takes a great conductor or performer to really generate interest - look what Bernstein did for Mahler.


my grandfather with his instruments, late 19th C.

 

[bonzo75]

I initially thought that fireplace was a front loaded horn with baffles, and I was like, what happened to the genes on the way to the grandson