Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers

I do as much nighttime listening as possible as it sounds much better than during the day.

I guess you spend time posting as much as possible during the day
 
Not exactly. Great jazz musicians, a lot of them obviously black, are among the greatest musicians in the world, not just because they are great technical players, but because in their complex improvisations they are creative in a way no classical musicians are, who only play the notes in front of them -- even though a great interpretation of how to play those notes is very creative in itself.

Also, jazz musicians need to be able to read notes. There are reports of a potential collaboration between Miles Davis and Jimi Hendrix that fell through because Hendrix could not read notes.

Obviously a victim of the non sequitar, etc.

If you're interested in learning, listen to piano concertos from, for example, Mozart and Beethoven. Then read about cadenzas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rando
Great jazz musicians, a lot of them obviously black, are among the greatest musicians in the world, not just because they are great technical players, but because in their complex improvisations they are creative in a way no classical musicians are, who only play the notes in front of them

I'd like to invite you to attend any classical symphonic performance the entire orchestra improvises their part throughout as the conductor cuts a rug.

Maybe an opera where the entire cast and pit go off the page. Making regietheater look tasteful.

As Thomas Quasthoff says "It's all Jazz." Classical during the majority period earth was rotating pre-conception of Jazz relied heavily on improvisation and intuition to be entertaining.
 
Obviously a victim of the non sequitar, etc.

If you're interested in learning, listen to piano concertos from, for example, Mozart and Beethoven. Then read about cadenzas.

Sure, if you mean ornamentations -- if they are played -- that's one thing, but comparing that with jazz improvisations is a non sequitur (correct spelling, BTW).

Many or most cadenzas are written out. Beethoven wrote out his piano concerto cadenzas. Mozart did as well; he did leave the performers options, but his cadenzas are now considered canon. The Tchaikovsky violin concerto cadenza is written out as well.

Certainly, Mozart, Beethoven and also, for example, Bruckner (at the organ) were reported to have been great improvisers. Yet I am not talking about composers, but today's jazz musicians vs today's classical musicians.

And no, you don't need to defend classical music to me. It's the music I have listened to the most throughout my adult life, and it is music that I deeply love.
 
Last edited:
Sadly, this is probably true. My grandfather played oboe and clarinet in Europe before coming to the States. My parents had no musical inclination - but they were smart enough to find out if any of his ability filtered through. I started piano lessons at 7 - my parents idea - then clarinet in 5th grade.

Schools at the elementary and middle level offer fewer and fewer opportunites for starting with an instrument - if they haven't cut programs entirely. This was/is a source of exposure to classical music that has dwindled. (Nowadays learning to play or even read music is probably considered 'white privilege'.) High Schools and University still have band and orchestra, but not so much introduction.

Many state universities continue to offer Musicology graduate studies as well as some schools in the UK and Canada. Musicology doesn't intersect much with audiophilery, but there seem to be folks who play music or know someone who plays music who have a home stereo.

Also, classical is expensive at the orchestral level, both to maintain an orchestra and facilities as well as attend. It takes a great conductor or performer to really generate interest - look what Bernstein did for Mahler.

View attachment 81915
my grandfather with his instruments, late 19th C.
A very cool pic :cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: tima
Last edited:
Why would this be, Brad? I would think air conditioners are pretty electrically noisy, and I would think more air conditioners would be on at night than during the day since people are home at night.
 
Why would this be, Brad? I would think air conditioners are pretty electrically noisy, and I would think more air conditioners would be on at night than during the day since people are home at night.
Maybe in California Ron..probably not in most other places...
 
Sadly, this is probably true. My grandfather played oboe and clarinet in Europe before coming to the States. My parents had no musical inclination - but they were smart enough to find out if any of his ability filtered through. I started piano lessons at 7 - my parents idea - then clarinet in 5th grade.

Schools at the elementary and middle level offer fewer and fewer opportunites for starting with an instrument - if they haven't cut programs entirely. This was/is a source of exposure to classical music that has dwindled. (Nowadays learning to play or even read music is probably considered 'white privilege'.) High Schools and University still have band and orchestra, but not so much introduction.

Many state universities continue to offer Musicology graduate studies as well as some schools in the UK and Canada. Musicology doesn't intersect much with audiophilery, but there seem to be folks who play music or know someone who plays music who have a home stereo.

Also, classical is expensive at the orchestral level, both to maintain an orchestra and facilities as well as attend. It takes a great conductor or performer to really generate interest - look what Bernstein did for Mahler.

View attachment 81915
my grandfather with his instruments, late 19th C.
Learning an instrument today is definitely wealth privilege as music education has been completely removed from public schools. Unless you have the disposable wealth to afford an instrument and lessons, you are not playing.

it’s really too bad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iain
I am afraid I do not understand.
I suspect he means that most folks do not use AC. Where I live AC is on the rise but probably only 5% of houses has it, so electronic pollution over here is caused by; switching stuff on and off, poorly designed and/or sized grid transformers, EMI, arc welding, whatever. In our current house the heater in my espresso machine cycling off causes audible ringing in the wiring of the 3KW balanced isolation transformer I am using for audio. No biggie as the Urania is switched off by the time I start serious listening.

 
I suspect he means that most folks do not use AC. Where I live AC is on the rise but probably only 5% of houses has it, so electronic pollution over here is caused by; switching stuff on and off, poorly designed and/or sized grid transformers, EMI, arc welding, whatever. In our current house the heater in my espresso machine cycling off causes audible ringing in the wiring of the 3KW balanced isolation transformer I am using for audio. No biggie as the Urania is switched off by the time I start serious listening.

In Denmark night time is still the best time for listening, when it comes to electrical power. We don't have much AC, but price structuring and taxation is pushing more users into electrical heat exchange systems using our ever present windmill power instead of oil and other dirtier heating sources. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveC and MarcelNL
Learning an instrument today is definitely wealth privilege as music education has been completely removed from public schools. Unless you have the disposable wealth to afford an instrument and lessons, you are not playing.

it’s really too bad.

Yes I agree, it really is too bad.

At the elementary and intermediary level, some schools used to supply basic instruments for free or a small rental while a music teacher rotated through several schools once a week. It was not uncommon for the music teacher to a part-time musician. High schools and colleges supplied larger instruments without cost, for example, timpani, bass drums and other percussion, contrabass bassoons, bass and alto clarinets, harps, tubas, sousaphones, and so on.

But many programs besides music education have been cut by schools or school boards in favor of 'other priorities'. Woodworking, metal shop, home economics, public speaking, automotive shop, office and secretarial skills, accounting, sewing, drivers ed, creative writing, choir - maybe not entirely gone everywhere. Skills that might equip a student to begin working out of high school as an apprentice or novice are now pushed into 'community colleges' or trade schools or trades which likewise require wealth or indebtedness or union privileges.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Solypsa
Learning an instrument today is definitely wealth privilege as music education has been completely removed from public schools. Unless you have the disposable wealth to afford an instrument and lessons, you are not playing.

it’s really too bad.
Not sure about that, where I live music education was never that big in our school system. There are alternatives if there is motivation and prioritiesa allow it; there is the autodidact route, internet, peer teaching...I mean, unless you want a very thorough background education in music there are ways to get to play music.
 
  • Like
Reactions: morricab
Yes I agree, it really is too bad.

At the elementary and intermediary level, some schools used to supply basic instruments for free or a small rental while a music teacher rotated through several schools once a week. It was not uncommon for the music teacher to a part-time musician. High schools and colleges supplied larger instruments without cost, for example, timpani, bass drums and other percussion, contrabass bassoons, bass and alto clarinets, harps, tubas, sousaphones, and so on.

But many programs besides music education have been cut by schools or school boards in favor of 'other priorities'. Woodworking, metal shop, home economics, public speaking, automotive shop, office and secretarial skills, accounting, sewing, drivers ed, creative writing, choir - maybe not entirely gone everywhere. Skills that might equip a student to begin working out of high school as an apprentice or novice are now pushed into 'community colleges' or trade schools or trades which likewise require wealth or indebtedness or union privileges.
From what I've been told it started with the focus on standardized testing. I'm 47 years old and had the privilege of having parents with a few bucks and music in school starting in third grade.
 
What about art education?
that totally depends on what school you look at, in elementary school art is taught trying to learn kids to appreciate it in different ways but in a very broad way, more focussing on culture as whole. In Secondary schools it really depends on the level of education.
Parents have a larger role there IMO, taking kids to musea, musical performances, theatre, listening to music with them etc.
My 5 year old appreciates Mahler as much as Kollektiv Turmstrasse, his attention span is still short so brief stints of exposure work best.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeterA and ddk

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu