Those of us who own MSB are use to this. It gets quite frustrating to say the least
MSB Diamond IV Select dac
- Thread starter CKKeung
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Those of us who own MSB are use to this. It gets quite frustrating to say the least
Oh...I'm just a fresh member of the club, but I think I won't ever get used to that. Strange marketing strategy...
Bought the analog (still feel strange saying the name...) select is more appropriate
(not in my league anyway) a few months ago, next month prior to purchase they announce a new usb input Damn.
Oh...I'm just a fresh member of the club, but I think I won't ever get used to that. Strange marketing strategy...
Bought the analog (still feel strange saying the name...) select is more appropriate
You can upgrade just your USB input. What if instead of an MSB, you got another DAC brand, and in the same time span, a new model came out, with a better USB input You'd be left with a door stop (commercially speaking).
alexandre
I see your point. Frankly, it is indeed welcomed the possibility of upgrading your gear and not become obsolete with this MSB policy, I just pointed the fact that I was "unlucky" to purchased the dac a month before the usb upgrade see the daylight.
Yes that's the glass 1/2 full perspective and what I like about MSB in addition to being a great sounding DAC whichever one of their products you buy.
The glass 1/2 empty is MSB announcing an "upgrade" for their entry level DAC prior to their benchmark product (I don't buy the cheaper models serving as the guinea pig scenario) and in general their announcing of products months before their availability or claims of their products doing things they can't such as the UMT+ being able to do gapless. Plus I just think it "good form" that if you are selling a "Select" product that basically buys you first in line for upgrades that their first upgrade in a year be for the "Select" rather than the Analog.
MSB has a drastic re-organization of its models of DACs.
Please visit their website!
http://www.msbtech.com/products/platinumHome.php
Please visit their website!
http://www.msbtech.com/products/platinumHome.php
That is a great service. I can only guess the existing Select DACs will be refurbished to became DAC V Diamond as they are basicly the same.
I wonder what are real differencies between the DAC IV and DAC V as both the motherboards, DAC modules and volume attenuators look exactly the same. Could it be only a different firmaware ? To me going from DAC IV to V looks more like the name refresh than anything else
Not sure if you noticed that the new DAC Select will include new DAC modules and no upsampling. The digital filter is also supposed to be new. I wonder what they came up with - maybe they went NOS route like the TotalDAC / LightHarmonic / Trinity ?
I would love to hear one in my system.
I wonder what are real differencies between the DAC IV and DAC V as both the motherboards, DAC modules and volume attenuators look exactly the same. Could it be only a different firmaware ? To me going from DAC IV to V looks more like the name refresh than anything else
Not sure if you noticed that the new DAC Select will include new DAC modules and no upsampling. The digital filter is also supposed to be new. I wonder what they came up with - maybe they went NOS route like the TotalDAC / LightHarmonic / Trinity ?
I would love to hear one in my system.
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That is a great service. I can only guess the existing Select DACs will be refurbished to became DAC V Diamond as they are basicly the same.
I wonder what are real differencies between the DAC IV and DAC V as both the motherboards, DAC modules and volume attenuators look exactly the same. Could it be only a different firmaware ? To me going from DAC IV to V looks more like the name refresh than anything else
Not sure if you noticed that the new DAC Select will include new DAC modules and no upsampling. The digital filter is also supposed to be new. I wonder what they came up with - maybe they went NOS route like the TotalDAC / LightHarmonic / Trinity ?
I would love to hear one in my system.
Hi Adam,
Yes, many questions!
MSB keeps their promise in upgrading the Diamond Select. Good!
The new Select chassis is squre-shaped. New circuit boards?
However, the circuit boards of V Series seem to be similar to those of IV Series.
Prices increased only for the more beautiful chassis?
Any WBF brothers who will attend CES 2015 please ask MSB to clarify.
CK
The DAC V looks to be the DAC IV in a new box. The MSB website says:
The Signature DAC V contains all the elements of the MSB Select DAC of 2014 except for Signature DAC modules and Signature DAC Volume Controls instead of Diamond Modules and Volume Controls.
And since the 2014 DAC Select was basicly a DAC IV Signature Plus / Diamond Plus with 'selected parts' (DAC modules ?) plus Galaxy Femto Clock as a standard, it all leads me to believe the DAC V Signature is internally the same as the DAC IV Signature Plus.
So only real difference is the new housing plus a new USB input - both of which already could have been ordered for a late DAC IV models !
The Signature DAC V contains all the elements of the MSB Select DAC of 2014 except for Signature DAC modules and Signature DAC Volume Controls instead of Diamond Modules and Volume Controls.
And since the 2014 DAC Select was basicly a DAC IV Signature Plus / Diamond Plus with 'selected parts' (DAC modules ?) plus Galaxy Femto Clock as a standard, it all leads me to believe the DAC V Signature is internally the same as the DAC IV Signature Plus.
So only real difference is the new housing plus a new USB input - both of which already could have been ordered for a late DAC IV models !
MSB has introduced a lot of changes since the DAC IV launch in 2010 (or was that 2011 ?) - they made the upsampling suite and filter suite standard, added Femto 140 clock, revised the USB input board (twice if I'm not mistaken), added DSD support, then made the 'Euro Style' heatsinks from the 2014 DAC Select available as an extra option. They probably realised, that with so many changes, they equally well could have introduced a new model !
A new model (vs a mere 'update') has many advantages from the manufacturer's point of view:
1. it creates a new interest between the current/future owners and media a like;
2. there is always a certain group of audiophiles, which have to have only the latest and greatest; those will rush to replace their DAC's IV with DAC V, meaning new sales for the company and its dealers;
3. a new model can be sent out for review more easily than 'updated' version;
4. all the comparisions that has been made and described in the press and various forums (like the one where I found my Trinity DAC substantially better the MSB DAC IV Diamond Plus I had at the time) become irrelevant etc
If there is sth that suprises me, is that they have introduced the new DAC with so little real upgrades. What is more, you can order the DAC V with the 'classic DAC IV look'. And since the DAC V has the same internals as DAC IV, it means that you can order the old DAC IV, with same technology inside, same casework, with the only difference beeing the new name on it ! That is ... interesting.
The new DAC Select on the other hand is sth that definitely caught my attention. The new casework, new DACs, new filters - this seems to be sth new and interesting.
Also their new Isolation Base looks very interesting:
http://www.msbtech.com/products/isoBase.php?Page=platinumHome
It looks like the Pranawire Linebacker + Tripoint Troy in a single box. It certainly borrows the single point grounding of the amps and DAC from the later. And it is only $1999 - not a million $ like the Tripoint.
I think this device, if it works as advertised, could be used with variety of DACs.
A new model (vs a mere 'update') has many advantages from the manufacturer's point of view:
1. it creates a new interest between the current/future owners and media a like;
2. there is always a certain group of audiophiles, which have to have only the latest and greatest; those will rush to replace their DAC's IV with DAC V, meaning new sales for the company and its dealers;
3. a new model can be sent out for review more easily than 'updated' version;
4. all the comparisions that has been made and described in the press and various forums (like the one where I found my Trinity DAC substantially better the MSB DAC IV Diamond Plus I had at the time) become irrelevant etc
If there is sth that suprises me, is that they have introduced the new DAC with so little real upgrades. What is more, you can order the DAC V with the 'classic DAC IV look'. And since the DAC V has the same internals as DAC IV, it means that you can order the old DAC IV, with same technology inside, same casework, with the only difference beeing the new name on it ! That is ... interesting.
The new DAC Select on the other hand is sth that definitely caught my attention. The new casework, new DACs, new filters - this seems to be sth new and interesting.
Also their new Isolation Base looks very interesting:
http://www.msbtech.com/products/isoBase.php?Page=platinumHome
It looks like the Pranawire Linebacker + Tripoint Troy in a single box. It certainly borrows the single point grounding of the amps and DAC from the later. And it is only $1999 - not a million $ like the Tripoint.
I think this device, if it works as advertised, could be used with variety of DACs.
During one discussion I had with MSB several months back I commented that I liked the look of the Analog DAC but not the IV Series. They indicated that their was some demand from the Japanese (or Asian) market for offering the IV series product to be more closely styled along the lines of the Analog series and they were working on it. I asked if it would be offered in NA but received no definitive answer. This all makes me think that Adam's points are spot on.
YUP.
Kind of disappointing unless some "new secret sauce" is revealed.
It appears the Select is a DAC V in a new enclosure and the DAC V is a DAC IV in a new/old enclosure and the Signature UMT is a UMT+ in a new enclosure.
From perch, the only two things I care about now is after all the smoke and mirrors with new "looks" which really isn't so new except for the "Select" is when are the new renderer and USB modules going to ACTUALLY be available, which when digging deeper still appears to be the real upgrades from MSB.
This is what I have learnt and hopefully someone visiting CES and meeting MSB can confirm the same.
1) The new Select is a completely new design including DAC`s, firmware, volume section, power supply, isolation etc etc. Everything is completely new and is yet under evaluation and testing. Nothing from the old Select is being carried forward. Nothing. The old Select is being taken back and the new select is being given free of cost to customers who purchased the Select anytime in 2014. No questions being asked.
2) The Diamond V is now performance wise a 2014 Select with some further improvements. So there will be a reasonable difference in sound from the Diamond IV+ to the Diamond V. MSB are offering an upgrade path to the new V series DAC at $6995. Anyone who has compared the Diamond IV+ and 2014 Select will confirm that the Select sounded much superior. From what I am told the Diamond V will sound even better than the 2014 Select. That if true is a very major improvement and the US retail between the old and new Diamond has gone up by only $2000 and $6995 for a complete upgrade if you owned the older Diamond, which includes the Euro heat sinks. At least unlike other DAC manufacturers in the market your investment with MSB is protected. That is a very real challenge in today`s digital space.
Hope some audiophiles visiting CES can confirm these facts.
But I am impressed if it is true.
1) The new Select is a completely new design including DAC`s, firmware, volume section, power supply, isolation etc etc. Everything is completely new and is yet under evaluation and testing. Nothing from the old Select is being carried forward. Nothing. The old Select is being taken back and the new select is being given free of cost to customers who purchased the Select anytime in 2014. No questions being asked.
2) The Diamond V is now performance wise a 2014 Select with some further improvements. So there will be a reasonable difference in sound from the Diamond IV+ to the Diamond V. MSB are offering an upgrade path to the new V series DAC at $6995. Anyone who has compared the Diamond IV+ and 2014 Select will confirm that the Select sounded much superior. From what I am told the Diamond V will sound even better than the 2014 Select. That if true is a very major improvement and the US retail between the old and new Diamond has gone up by only $2000 and $6995 for a complete upgrade if you owned the older Diamond, which includes the Euro heat sinks. At least unlike other DAC manufacturers in the market your investment with MSB is protected. That is a very real challenge in today`s digital space.
Hope some audiophiles visiting CES can confirm these facts.
But I am impressed if it is true.
Well you are claiming you have "learnt" these things you are stating, so where did you "learn" these things from and if your source, is MSB, which is the only legitimate place to "learn" what you state, then why do we need "confirmation"?
Can you elaborate?
A friend, not a part of this forum informed me about what I have written. He has obviously got these facts from MSB, but as it is not first hand for me I need to be certain and that can easily happen when like minded audiophiles visit MSB at the CES and confirm the same. From what I was told is that the Diamond DAC V at its price will be quiet something and a reasonably big leap forward over the IV+. But proof of that will be when someone really hears it in comparison.
I am also told the Renderer will be a free upgrade for the Select owners. Also the new Isolation Box will be a free part of the upgrade for Select owners.....and makes a really big difference...a mini Tripoint maybe? Am being told not to hear a MSB V Series DAC without the MSB Isolation Box.
Finally I went through the MSB website and everything is posted their in detail, but I would yet like to hear it or someone I trust evaluate this claim. I really do not know much more.
I am also told the Renderer will be a free upgrade for the Select owners. Also the new Isolation Box will be a free part of the upgrade for Select owners.....and makes a really big difference...a mini Tripoint maybe? Am being told not to hear a MSB V Series DAC without the MSB Isolation Box.
Finally I went through the MSB website and everything is posted their in detail, but I would yet like to hear it or someone I trust evaluate this claim. I really do not know much more.
Owned Diamond IV . Usd40k + . Upgraded to Select . Initial offer usd60k . When I upgraded it price increase to USD75K but was given a good offer . Is it usd30k+ better . Definitely not . Much quieter yes . Much better ???? Definitely Not. Sounded different? Yes . Is it worth the upgrade ? No . I upgraded because of the upgrade program which provide 1 year free upgrade & 10 years warranty & pay the price difference of any upgrade if any. Now I was told that the new version is worth USD90k. By the 10th upgrade it should be double the price & probably more than USD200k ????. Let's hope this free upgrade is worth the decision to pay for the Select model upgrade
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