Optimum dispersion in speakers

Gregadd

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We know then for the most part speakers push air. They radiate on a manner that is perpendicular to the surface. Cone speakers generally describe a three dimensional 180 degree arc. Flat panels radiate a flat 180 degree surface. They both propagate waves.
It is generally accepted that wide dispersion is better. At least one person disagrees

If you listen in stereo with both speakers pointed into the room you are listening as mu h as 45 degrees off axis. You can of course tilt the speaker directly at your ear.
How do we describe a sweet spot?
How dramatic is the fall pff as we move away from the point where the speaker sounds best?
Is there a trade off between the ultimate quality of the sweet spot and its width?
.Can we automatically assume the sweet spot is achieved with the tweeter pointed directly at our ear at ear level?
 

Gregadd

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Gregadd

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Gregadd

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A-panel-speaker-a-and-the-two-channels-that-transmit-sound-to-the-edges-the-airborne.png
 

kach22i

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Could you please post a link where the image above came from?

This is one of those spider looking activators one can put on any object including foam core board, right?

See my posts in the link below.

Wave Speakers - How do they work?

As far as the main topic, the 360 spherical radiation pattern seems most natural and convincing to me (a "point source" speaker was the Melior One by Musetex ) but there are so many problems with the room that in practice the narrower pattern is the better (ie stats).

What I mean to say is our ears evolved in an outdoor world, not an indoor one.

The less we hear the room boundaries the better I'm afraid, even though that is counter to how sound is created in nature via tension membrane of the larynx for instance.

In short.......... in order to hear less room boundary see A, B & C below:

(A) Activator/Melior one/360 = Near Field listening position (to avoid hearing more room than speaker)

(B) Conventional/180 = Mid Field listening position

(C) Flat Panel/90 = Far Field listening position

I have listened to Martin Logan CLS's in the near-field and it was like a giant pair of headphones and not to my liking.
 
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Gregadd

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It is just an image I found and not attached to an article.
I recall a guy who positioned ML Prodigys as though they were earphones.
I wish I could just listen to binaural recordings and earphones as God intended
 

Folsom

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Greg, if the baffle isn't really wide, it's not a 180*, a lot of the sound wraps around. There's a world of information on this stuff... I'm not even sure where to help you start other than "Google".

Look up power response.
 

Gregadd

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I confess my ignorance
My ears are i intelligent. I am trying to reconcile what I hear with the facts.
If you don't want to take the journey with me that is fine. I find one way to dispel misconceptions is to express what you are thinking.
If it is tooelementary for you, then you lnow...
Thank you for your referral to Google. Although I would appreciate so.ething more specific.
 

kach22i

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Do these fit into the conversation?

https://www.videoteldigital.com/hyp...MI-aPmxdTl5gIVx8DACh1-OwkhEAQYAiABEgJmJPD_BwE
HyperSound® beams sound so only those in the targeted listening area can hear it. For those nearby, the directional speaker, the sound to the ear is similar to virtual headphones so to speak

If you are looking for the sound that beams to intended individuals and or to enable multiple audio zones without sound bleed, the Hypersound system is the perfect solution.

HyperSound® HSS 3000 is an extremely focused audio technology means sound where you want it. HyperSound innovation in audio that generates an ultrasonic beam of sound. Similar to how a flashlight controls a ray of light
 

kach22i

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Folsom

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I confess my ignorance
My ears are i intelligent. I am trying to reconcile what I hear with the facts.
If you don't want to take the journey with me that is fine. I find one way to dispel misconceptions is to express what you are thinking.
If it is tooelementary for you, then you lnow...
Thank you for your referral to Google. Although I would appreciate so.ething more specific.

I’m not trying to be rude, it’s just that where does one begin? There’s a vast Sea.

Playing with this may teach you a lot. https://www.falstad.com/wavebox/
 

Gregadd

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George
It does seem to address my quesion. Can you design a narrow sweet spot? Of course otleaves the question is that the right approach.
 
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Folsom

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George
It does seem to address my quesion. Can you design a narrow sweet spot? Ofcourse otleaves the question is that the right approach.

Yes you can. High directivity like from horns. Electrostatics do too because the panels are so large that the wave mostly goes forward.

Different horns have different dispersion patterns. Visit Danley Labs website and look at their unique things that tell you the pattern degree they have as some examples. JBL and other usually say they’re horn degrees of dispersion. (Often more wide than more vertical)

It’s a physics thing. In order to coerce a frequency in a direction you need 1/4 of the wavelength to guide it from rolling over and back. For example on a Magico speaker 200hz is 5.6ft. So you need 1.4ft of baffle (horn or not) to give it direction. The speaker is maybe half that wide so a lot of the 200hz wraps around to the back, its closer to omni directional. But for example a 15” midrange is so large that it can send a lot of frequencies mostly forward, that say a 4” driver would spill around the baffle if its not very wide. This is because the driver plays by the same rule, it has to be big enough compared to the wavelength to primarily project sound forward.

http://www.mcsquared.com/wavelength.htm
 

Gregadd

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I found this on line arrays.

https://www.toa.jp/soundoh_wiki/index.php?Soundindex/How far will the Line Array Speaker effect extend?






I take it not all loudspeakers using conventional dynamic drivers are considered "point sources" when used in a line array configuration.

I found the diagrams below to be of interest as well.

https://www.kv2audio.com/technical-...-vs-line-array-and-introduction-to-vhd50.html




Isn't off axis blurred sound?
I think being off axis affects FR and imaging.
 
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DaveC

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There is no optimal dispersion pattern.

Some speaker companies believe there should be a a 360 degree radiation pattern, others have very narrow dispersion patterns and everything in between. Some are bipoles, some are dipoles.

IMO, the dispersion pattern is more a question of personal preference, but the room the speakers are in needs to reflect the sound in such a way it doesn't create a noticeable signature. With a wide dispersion speaker this requires a complimentary room, while some narrow dispersion speakers can perform well in most environments. However, large multi-way horns that require a longer listening distance for the sound coming from the different horns to combine properly before the listening position and dipoles need room between the speakers and front wall. Many 2-3 way horn and waveguide speakers can be listened to from a closer distance, so if you use a wider speaker placement with more toe-in you can avoid a lot of 1st reflection issues that can limit performance of cone n domes when placed in non-ideal rooms.

So, I would consider personal preference as well as the room the speakers will be placed in when deciding what type of speaker to go for as far as dispersion pattern.
 

Duke LeJeune

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Imo loudspeaker dispersion is a really big topic so I'm only going scratch the surface, and take what I say as just one biased person's opinion. I will be making some simplifying assumptions for the sake of brevity.

The dispersion pattern tells us how much energy is going out into the reverberant field in the room, relative to the direct sound. Too little and the music is dry and uninvolving; too much and clarity can suffer... but it's a bit more complicated than that.

I tend to look to a good recital hall for guidance when it comes to loudspeaker/room interaction. In general a good seat near the front-center of a recital hall gives you a strong direct sound, then a time gap before the first sidewall reflections start to arrive, then a LOT of spectrally correct reflections coming in, particularly from the side walls.

Imo the most important characteristic the reverberant field should have is, it should be spectrally correct. That is, it should sound very much like the direct sound, which is generally how natural sounds behave.

The dispersion pattern + room & setup determine how much reverberant energy we get at the listening position relative to the direct sound, how long it takes to arrive, and what directions it arrives from. In my OPINION the ideal would be: A fairly long time delay between the direct sound and the onset of reflections; those reflections arriving from all around but especially from the side walls; and plenty of reverberant energy which dies away fairly uniformly and neither too quickly nor too slowly.

(I take a controversial position regarding early sidewall reflections - I believe they are generally overall undesirable, though they do have desirable aspects. I can go into detail if anyone would like.)

In hopes of neither overgeneralizing or nor overwhelming, let's take a quick look at five types of radiation patterns. The general rule of dispersion is, the wider the radiating surface at a given frequency, the narrower the dispersion at that frequency (bending wave drivers and curved panels being an exceptions).

1. Generic two-way. The typical 6" two way's radiation pattern has an off-axis glitch in the crossover region, maybe 2.5 kHz ballpark. The midwoofer's pattern has narrowed to about 90 degrees in this region (-6 dB at 45 degrees off-axis to either side), but the tweeter's pattern is usually 180 degrees, and would be even wider without the baffle. So we have a relative excess of off-axis energy at the bottom end of the tweeter's range, say 2.5 kHz to maybe 5 kHz. Right smack in the middle of this octave is where the ear is most sensitive, so this excess off-axis energy can cause harshness and/or listening fatigue. One way to mitigate this problem is to introduce an offsetting dip at the bottom end of the tweeter's response, so that the average of the direct sound + the reverberant sound is about right. But we still have a spectral discrepancy between the direct and reflected sound.

2. Wide pattern. Most high-end home audio speakers can be described as "wide pattern". The specifics vary of course, but in general they put out a lot of beneficial off-axis energy, which we can make use of. Because they tend to interact with the side walls a lot, wide-pattern speakers generally benefit quite a bit from professional room treatment. Good box speakers arguably offer the best combination of box size and bass extension, so they usually have other things going for them as well.

3. Omni Pattern. Omnis excel at getting the spectral balance of the reverberant field correct, so they tend to convey very rich timbre. They typically sound best when placed fairly far from the walls, as this allows the ear to distinguish the direct sound from the reverberant sound. Room acoustics play a big role with omnis... too much absorption of the highs and they can sound lifeless.

4. Horns. Horns are at the opposite end of the spectrum from omnis, as their dispersion patterns are typically the most narrow. Thus their direct-to-reverberant sound ratios tend to be quite high, which (in the better examples) enhances immediacy and vividness, at the expense of envelopment and immersion. They are less sensitive to room acoustics than others because their narrower patterns don't interact with the room as strongly.

5. Polydirectional (including dipole) pattern. There is a great deal of variation among dipoles and polydirectionals, but let's take the Martin Logan CLS as an example. The radiation pattern is fairly narrow such that early sidewall interaction is avoided by sufficient toe-in, which imo is desirable. The backwave has exactly the same spectral content as the frontwave, which is also desirable, and that same toe-in angles the backwave towards the sides of the room somewhat. Now if we position them far enough out into the room, the backwave energy arrives after a nice long time delay.

As DaveC points out above, room acoustics and listener preference play major roles. So there really is no "best" dispersion pattern, though you probably picked up on my bias in favor of polydirectionals.

If anyone would like, I can go into the implications of dispersion on sweet spot width... some of which is intuitive, some of which is not.
 
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Gregadd

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In general I have been taught narrow dispersion is bad. My ears have never agreed.
Thanks. Feel free to wax on.
 

Folsom

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Everyone likes different stuff... obviously horn people don’t agree with narrow being bad!
 
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