You probably need to change out all your equipment, cables and headphones until you find a package that works with the receptacle.
QSA : My take on their expensive products
- Thread starter CKKeung
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@keithc Burn in requires at least 300 hrs per receptacle. Patience is part of the burn in process.
I don't agree with 300 hours burn in. Out of the gate something such as a duplex that cost $1500 should sound better. It should not sound, not as good or only a little different with the though in 300 hours its going to go from not so good to amazing. 24 hours. That is all it needs. The next day the device should be presenting for the most part how it will present in 300 hours. I find this is the case with all the wire and other electrical distribution devices I handle. The next day it is stable and presenting as it should.
Whatever your personal experiences/beliefs are with regard to burn-in generally (mine are very different from what you described), since we don't know what QSA's outlet modifications involve, we don't know if/how they affect burn-in time.
There are plenty of threads slinging opinion on this topic and a better place to discuss it.
@keithc
Sorry, they did not create the magic that you had hoped for. The good news is that you tried them and now you can return them....not a great loss. Every system is different. For me, once I used a silver jitter plug my SQ was elevated immediately. In my case, I purchased the Jitter plug used so the burn in was already complete.
Sorry, they did not create the magic that you had hoped for. The good news is that you tried them and now you can return them....not a great loss. Every system is different. For me, once I used a silver jitter plug my SQ was elevated immediately. In my case, I purchased the Jitter plug used so the burn in was already complete.
FWIW, I am not saying QSA does not have a sound, good or bad. My experience is everything has a sound. I use Hifi Supreme Gold fuses in my amps because they shape the sound to my liking. My amps are the only equipment that take a fuse. Everything else has built in circuit breakers.
Edit:
Well, a week of so back I blew one of the Hifi Supreme Gold fuses in the Dartzeel. My First Sound preamp is out for an upgrade. I was using a Shiit Valhalla 2 as a temp solution. The Shiit faulted out somehow. That made the Dartzeel activate its crowbar and detonate the fuse. Well, seems they don't make the gold anymore. Or I am having a hard time finding a 5 x 20 - 6.3 amp one. I liked that fuse.
Edit:
Well, a week of so back I blew one of the Hifi Supreme Gold fuses in the Dartzeel. My First Sound preamp is out for an upgrade. I was using a Shiit Valhalla 2 as a temp solution. The Shiit faulted out somehow. That made the Dartzeel activate its crowbar and detonate the fuse. Well, seems they don't make the gold anymore. Or I am having a hard time finding a 5 x 20 - 6.3 amp one. I liked that fuse.
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Whether you agree or not, it’s just poor form to assess a product without giving it a fair shot. If the manufacturer suggests that the product needs 300 hours to sound best, a fair person would either give it that long before posting a review - or they would caveat their impressions by admitting that the product they heard had not yet reached that point.
When I post observations I am usually careful to mention if it’s early in the burn-in process. I then often try to report later how things continue to improve. And I never comment on a product’s burn-in process unless I can speak from personal experience or I can reference the experience of another who assessed it fairly.
Your point is well taken.
In full transparency I did specify exactly how I tested and for how long, and that if I had a prolonged trial period perhaps it would have been different. My opinion piece was purely my experience, and I have no motives for either supporting nor dissuading others from using QSA.
Also, please note that neither QSA nor my dealer specify a burn-in time. I have only heard the 300 hours from the respectable folks here, so I assume that's true; when I told my dealer that I was not super impressed w/ my experience, I specifically asked if I should burn in longer and he did not feel that was necessary.
Perhaps the burn-in time differ for fuses, outlets, and cables? I certainly can't speak from experience.
I don't recall my Furutech GTX outlet's burn in process. I threw out the 300 figure because over the past year I've repeatedly noticed the final major change in various gear, including cables, fuses, a dac upgrade, power cords and tubes, occurred between 275 and 300 hours (I record hours daily during burn in). They've just seemed to click in right there for some reason. Other times previously, I've seen 225-250 hours or up to 400 or more. Given the outlet's parts, QSA's processes and the cord plugged into it adapting, I would work on the assumption that their outlet is not any different, until I hear otherwise myself. I seem to recall their fuses needed well over 200 hours of burn in.
I've noticed that some high end developers/companies suggest a number of hours and some don't for all types of gear. For those that do, a note saying 100-150 hours is common, occasionally 200. Except for Morrow Audio, which says around 400 for their cables, I can't recall any where the figure given was nearly sufficient. Even re-burnin of used gear and components, whether recently used or not, often takes 150 hours.
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I appreciate your response. I was just speaking in general terms so I’m glad you took it that way.
I'm happy to share my burn-in experience with the QSA outlets. I purchased a pair of QSA Silver outlets with Crystal treatment directly from QSA in Hong Kong last year and with zero hours on these outlets, they did not sound as good as my Silver fuses but they didn't sound bad and I heard the potential right away. After a couple of days, these outlets went from sounding good to sounding atrociously bad -- just thin, fatiguingly bright, and bass virtually disappeared. They were literally unlistenable. I gave them 2 weeks and they still sounded horrible and so I called my electrician friend to come by and pull them out of the wall and put my original Hubbells back in. I figured these outlets must somehow either be defective or they just didn't work well in my system. Fortunately for me, my electrician was busy and he couldn't get me on his schedule for 2 weeks. I say "fortunately" because by week 3, things started to finally come together and gone was the thin and bright sound and bass started to fill in. By week 4, these outlets had become just AMAZING!
I was so impressed with these Silver outlets that a colleague and I each commissioned a highly-regarded line conditioner manufacturer here in California to build us each one of his line conditioners with 3 of these outlets installed. He built my colleague's unit first and upon first listen, this manufacturer was so impressed that he wanted to develop some partnership with QSA so that he could include these outlets in his units. I warned him about my "burn in" experience but he didn't buy into it. He took the unit home and within days, he came back to me to tell me how these outlets made his video image on his high resolution video monitor look horrible and that there was no way he would ever use these outlets again. My colleague took possession of this unit and indeed, in his system, it was underwhelming for weeks. He plugged his refrigerator into the unit, his vacuum cleaner, whatever he could do to speed up the burn in. As this colleague lives in Europe, I never got a chance to hear this unit post-burn in for myself but he said finally, after about a month the unit had transformed itself and was now sounding "orgasmic."
I have no explanation for this "burn in" experience as it was never this bad with their fuses or with their cables but you definitely have to be patient with them and the higher level treatments like Silver (especially Crystal) seem to require more burn in time.
I was so impressed with these Silver outlets that a colleague and I each commissioned a highly-regarded line conditioner manufacturer here in California to build us each one of his line conditioners with 3 of these outlets installed. He built my colleague's unit first and upon first listen, this manufacturer was so impressed that he wanted to develop some partnership with QSA so that he could include these outlets in his units. I warned him about my "burn in" experience but he didn't buy into it. He took the unit home and within days, he came back to me to tell me how these outlets made his video image on his high resolution video monitor look horrible and that there was no way he would ever use these outlets again. My colleague took possession of this unit and indeed, in his system, it was underwhelming for weeks. He plugged his refrigerator into the unit, his vacuum cleaner, whatever he could do to speed up the burn in. As this colleague lives in Europe, I never got a chance to hear this unit post-burn in for myself but he said finally, after about a month the unit had transformed itself and was now sounding "orgasmic."
I have no explanation for this "burn in" experience as it was never this bad with their fuses or with their cables but you definitely have to be patient with them and the higher level treatments like Silver (especially Crystal) seem to require more burn in time.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Have you noticed similar burn-in stages with the QSA landeri power cables?
romaz, that's helpful. I believe that if there's juice to the outlet, with a cord plugged in on both ends to a component that's in trickle mode, that should be more than enough. Maybe your friend wanted his system back in the meantime.
I was reading their site, or Tweak Geeks and it said 24 hours. May have been a fuse.
400 hours. Even 250, but 400 hours??? That is such a long time, many things could change in the system. Were talking about a half a year of playing 4 hours a day, 3 times a week. A cord could change. Amp or preamp. Tubes in equipment. Utility power. Branch circuits. Caps in something. Its endless what could happen in that time. There are far to many variables to say a half a year later the magic is due to XXXXX finally burning in.
Can someone show published burn in requirements from QSA for different products. I am interested what they have to say.
Did any of you watch the Shunyata factory tour. They take the time to burn in their wires before production. If some company were to tell me I needed months of burn in, I would wonder why they don't take the time to set their equipment in a more appropriate condition of use before distributing to end users. Not doing as such makes a very convenient excuse for poor reviews if they appear somewhere. You should have waited another year!!!!!! Then it would be great.
Sure I am stirring the pot. But a company modifying/making a fuse/duplex and selling it for $750 to $2500 should have the resources to cook the equipment before release. These are small items that don't take room. I guess the argument could be made the utility bill may be high. But still, a series device could process everything for $.12KW x 24 hours a day x 20 days. Thats $56.
Can someone show published burn in requirements from QSA for different products. I am interested what they have to say.
Did any of you watch the Shunyata factory tour. They take the time to burn in their wires before production. If some company were to tell me I needed months of burn in, I would wonder why they don't take the time to set their equipment in a more appropriate condition of use before distributing to end users. Not doing as such makes a very convenient excuse for poor reviews if they appear somewhere. You should have waited another year!!!!!! Then it would be great.
Sure I am stirring the pot. But a company modifying/making a fuse/duplex and selling it for $750 to $2500 should have the resources to cook the equipment before release. These are small items that don't take room. I guess the argument could be made the utility bill may be high. But still, a series device could process everything for $.12KW x 24 hours a day x 20 days. Thats $56.
@Kingrex Excuse me if I've misread your comment, but I sense a misunderstanding here. If a power cord is getting juice and is connected on the destination end, it's burning in. The component it's hooked to doesn't have to be playing or even on except for the back switch (trickle current), if it uses one, which allows the cord's destination end connector to pass current too. The same with a fuse: just the back switch (or trickle current) on and power coming to the inlet. And the same with an outlet, which is getting current constantly unless the breaker is killed. It's a passive process. So the count for power related components is 24 x7 x # days, typically 10-14, which goes quickly, no music needed.
With IC's and components, the source component does need to be playing, not the destination one, just so it's plugged into the latter (IC's). With tubes, the component just needs to be on, i.e., tubes on, no music necessary. The tubes in my Lampi dac, for instance, run at an average of 20-25%, music or not, and 50% in my VAC preamp (I've asked VAC and Lukasz of Lampi brags about it). With tube gear having a rectifier, if the latter is burned in already, a cheap solid state one can be swapped in to save the tube while others burn in (see eBay). Or one can pull the other tubes between sessions if a recti is the object of burn in.
As for electrical costs, I live in a high cost, privatized electricity state in the upper Rockies (NW Energy). I normally leave the regenerator running 24/7, my active speakers on 24/7, other components in trickle mode between sessions, and tube gear left on for the rest of the day, once started (for longevity). During the warmer months when I'm not running heat, my bills have normally been in the $40-$50 range, at least before the recent inflation. Continuous playing of audio for burn in does take it up a bit, but I don't recall ever seeing anything near $56.
I haven't used a Shunyata power cord since they started their burn in process, but more typical in my experience is for developers to run components (e.g., dac, pre, amp) 24 hours before shipping for QC purposes. Beyond that, unless there's a burnin option, usually on a cooker and paid, they want to get the gear out the door quickly to the anxiously waiting end user -- and they don't want to run up their own burn in equipment and electricity costs, even if they have the room, which many don't. If you read reviews, the writer almost invariably recounts how long they've let the piece of gear run before serious evaluation starts, typically 200-400 hours. How much they found was needed is sometimes part of the article.
With IC's and components, the source component does need to be playing, not the destination one, just so it's plugged into the latter (IC's). With tubes, the component just needs to be on, i.e., tubes on, no music necessary. The tubes in my Lampi dac, for instance, run at an average of 20-25%, music or not, and 50% in my VAC preamp (I've asked VAC and Lukasz of Lampi brags about it). With tube gear having a rectifier, if the latter is burned in already, a cheap solid state one can be swapped in to save the tube while others burn in (see eBay). Or one can pull the other tubes between sessions if a recti is the object of burn in.
As for electrical costs, I live in a high cost, privatized electricity state in the upper Rockies (NW Energy). I normally leave the regenerator running 24/7, my active speakers on 24/7, other components in trickle mode between sessions, and tube gear left on for the rest of the day, once started (for longevity). During the warmer months when I'm not running heat, my bills have normally been in the $40-$50 range, at least before the recent inflation. Continuous playing of audio for burn in does take it up a bit, but I don't recall ever seeing anything near $56.
I haven't used a Shunyata power cord since they started their burn in process, but more typical in my experience is for developers to run components (e.g., dac, pre, amp) 24 hours before shipping for QC purposes. Beyond that, unless there's a burnin option, usually on a cooker and paid, they want to get the gear out the door quickly to the anxiously waiting end user -- and they don't want to run up their own burn in equipment and electricity costs, even if they have the room, which many don't. If you read reviews, the writer almost invariably recounts how long they've let the piece of gear run before serious evaluation starts, typically 200-400 hours. How much they found was needed is sometimes part of the article.
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I believe that Shunyata got it start in the late 1990s. I don't exactly recall when Shunyata started treating all their cables with KPIP but it wasn't all that long ago. I think it arrived with the first cables in the NR series - so maybe sometime around 2017. That's about 20 years of them shipping products before they started cooking them with KPIP before shipping them.
One reason that most manufacturers don't burn in cables before shipping them is that the burn-in reverts if the cable sits without current flowing through it. Nordost opted for having their reference dealers do the burn-in using a device (Vidar) the dealers themselves had to purchase so it could be done at the time of purchase. The MMF technology they use lead to a very long burn-in time - especially for small signal cables. You can see here that Nordost even recommends occasionally "reconditioning" the cable by having it put on the Vidar again.
My point here is that the burn in problem isn't easily solved. It took time for even the welll-established companies to respond to complaints about how long it took for newly-purchased products to start sounding great. Burning at the factory using traditional methods can't be counted on to predictably solve this problem.
What ultimately matters is whether a customer thinks the benefits were worth the wait. I certainly did with each of the QSA products that I purchased. That I squirmed a bit during the first 15 days was easily forgotten once the full magic appeared.
The burn-in I have experienced with QSA--Lanedri cables is similar to the QSA fuses. They sound decent immediately then they go through ups and downs where they don't sound impressive at times but never have they sounded offensive like the outlets. Because these outlets are made of brass and not copper, it's possible that accounts for the unusual burn-in process. I really don't know.
For QSA power cords that I have, consistent experience has been pretty good (with hints of roughness) out of the box, then downhill, then a roller coast ride, finally settling out after a couple weeks. From there, a nice mellow improvement until things settle nicely.
Quite a surreal experience actually. Most significant burn in up and downs I've experienced.
Quite a surreal experience actually. Most significant burn in up and downs I've experienced.
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