Question: How to purchase?

[LL21]

Interesting how Absolute Sounds has had a monopoly for years. I've never had to deal with them, but I understand that they are actually fairly good. Let's hope that is the case.

Yes, they are excellent. There are some other Distributors who have garnered a reputation as being very difficult which is too bad given that they carry excellent lines. Many dealers over the years have held on and gritted through the difficulties, but eventually had to let them go.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, I believe that one almost never comes across a dealer who sells both Magico and Wilson is due to this fact.....AW goes bananas IF a dealer wishes to stock both brands, and from what I have also heard; DW does exactly the same thing,LOL

Yes, and I suppose in the US that certain manufacturers have clauses in contracts with their dealers that prohibit them from also representing other competing brands. In such a climate, it might be very difficult for a brand to break into particular regional markets that have very few and well established dealers. They are in essence, locked out from getting a foothold.

This gives rise to the early retired audiophile who sees an opportunity to sell his favorite (and underrepresented) brands, out of his home as a way to get more into the hobby and earn some extra income. It is becoming a very fractured industry with a few very big players and many smaller players. Here, service will be key.

Interestingly, in the last few years I have seen a shift from simply going over to hear friends' systems for an afternoon to actually doing some direct A/B/A comparisons between components that they is considering buying. This happened recently with both some Stillpoint isolation devices and two Pass Labs amplifiers. Or friends will bring over a power cord or a preamp that they think I should hear in my system. This can actually be more informative than hearing a component in isolation in an unfamiliar dealer's system and demo room. From reading some of the threads on forums, this is happening all over the place.

One may still have an excellent experience shopping for gear in a traditional, well established dealership, but now there are simply more options for the audiophile. Like many of us, I have availed myself of quite a few of those options in the process of assembling the current iteration of my evolving system.

There are also a few set up experts who are willing to travel, and for a fee, to help set up the more complicated components of a system like speakers and analog front ends. Local dealers could see this as another opportunity to sell services for a fee to those who have components that were not purchased from those local dealers. In doing so, they can perhaps establish a good relationship with that local audiophile and perhaps sell him something in the future.

The other thing I have not seen mentioned much in this thread is the notion that some audiophiles have as much or more knowledge about sound, how to set up a system, and even some components, than do the employees of many dealerships. These experienced audiophiles don't need the dealers the way they used to for set up or even component selection and matching. They just need repair/warranty service and access to new equipment. They don't need expertise, or if they do, they can have an experienced friend help them the way the dealer used to. In this environment, they can buy direct or used and get much more value for their money.

My friend recently bought a very expensive pair of speakers. The dealer delivered them but did not spend the time to properly set them up as had been agreed for the purchase price. After some time and much frustration, my friend resorted to asking other audiophiles to help him. The dealer lost a customer. And considering that there was next to no service included, my friend could have bought used and gotten more value. That was an interesting lesson.

 

[asiufy]

Hey, let the markets determine. Yes I am asking manufacturers to become "retailers" as more and more of them are every year and certainly they are at every show they sell direct.

If a manufacturer who charges a "dealer" 60% of retail, still makes 20-30% on the product and he/she who is selling to the "dealer" was to sell to the public at 65-70% of what the "dealer's retail was they would be way ahead of where they are and be done with the middle man, providing a much better price to the enduser. Raidho for example charges a dealer only 40% of retail leaving 60 points on the table.

As to extra cost, most of their variable and fixed costs are already accounted for whether they are selling direct or through a dealer and in fact, their costs would probably go down if they sold direct. The only cost would be for a "sound room" for the uber expensive too heavy speaker to ship to a customer for audition equipment and as far as I know most if not all manufacturers have these sound rooms to voice their products; at least any manufacturer worth their weight. Every dealer and/or manufacturer one talks with says "well we build these products for the Asian market" BUT if people open their eyes the Asian markets are becoming "mature" and their economic growth is stifling as happens in every high growth economy-eventually the growth can't be sustained.

Do you think these innumerable shows are for "fun"? No, they are to sell their gear. More deals are made at these shows then you know. So why not just modify the "show paradigm" and use modern techniques, including the NET, etc, to broaden the marketplace. As I said above, most bricks and mortar dealers can no longer make money off of "the audiophile". IF they don't sell home automation/theater/etc, they are out of business, save a few and even the Goodwins of this world probably make more and more off the home theater/automation market than they do off the audiophile. The more the manufacturer demands of the bricks and mortar guys, the higher the price, the less product they sell through these guys and the more that are being sold back door anyway. I know of many, including on this and other sites that are already bypassing the bricks and mortar guys.

It is time to call a spade a spade and not pretend and provide a market that ensures not destroys the survival of audiophile gear.

Priaptor,

You clearly underestimate the amount of work (and investment) that's required to be a retailer, of any kind. If it was simple and easy, as you imagine, more well known brands would be doing it themselves, instead of staying with the dealer model, specially now, with Internet and more open borders between countries.

We also see differently where the dealer market is headed. I don't see the home theatre market as salvation. That's actually what led most dealers to their death.

I guess we'll just have to leave it at that, agree to disagree It's a good discussion to have anyway, would be even better to have it while listening to good music, on a good system, while drinking good belgian beer, at a dealer's


alexandre

 

[Elliot G.]

thank you all for your comments they are very interesting
Let us consider the following.
Please rate these items in order of importance to you in making a purchase
Delivery and set up or install
price
demonstration of product
selection of competing products
after sale service
shows
reviews

thanks

 

[JackD201]

Delivery and installation is of big importance over here. I think mainly it is because the average Filipino isn't very big. I have three pretty burly guys but when we deliver and install our larger loudspeakers we need to outsource muscle.

 

[marty]

1) demonstration of product
2) Price
3) Price
4) price
5) Delivery and set up or install
6) selection of competing products
6) after sale service
6) shows
6) reviews

 

[taters]

Of course they do. If the dealer margin is say 40% and the manufacturer margin is 20%, the manufacturer pockets 60% on a direct sale. What the dealer does is compete with the manufacturer direct on price, so they give you 20%, or half his margin, to steer business his way. The manufacturer cannot match this discount on a manufacturer direct sale, because his dealers would ditch the brand. Either way you have huge channel conflict.

I think all high-end products should be sold direct. Selling through dealers is an antiquated process. This is 2014 not 1984. Dealers have no use anymore. Plus most dealers are not accomadating, have very short hours and are only Interested in Mr. Deep pockets. I say away with the dealer network.

 

[taters]

I've seen many relatively new Wilson and Magico speakers going for 50 cents on the dollar or less on Audiogon.

I think very few brands are exempt from this phenomena assuming someone wants to hold a "fire sale".

GG

Speakers like Magico and Wilson have such high mark-ups they could sell direct to consumers at 50% off retail and still make a killing.

 

[taters]

Judged by used prices on Audiogon, few brands depreciate as much as Wilson. Buying wilson new, even at 20% off, is a very, very bad move financially. Having said that, if you intent to ever resell a piece, staying away from obscure brands is mandatory. I have bought stuff from such brands for 20 cents on the dollar, and am still stuck with them. Should probably donate to charity and get tax write off.

I recently saw the top of the line Y&G acoustics being sold for 70% off retail and they were only 1 year old. They retailed for 108k and were being sold for 32.5k.

 

[taters]

Wait Musicdirect is JUST the kind of business model that bricks and mortar "authorized dealers" deplore and are hastening their demise???

Music Direct has taken a lot of business away from Brick and Mortar stores. I don't know If this is true or not but I heard they are selling 30 million in audio equipment alone not counting software. That is a lot of food off retailers plate.

 

[taters]

Yes they do discount, based on purchase price, product, and purchasing history with them.

Music Direct doesn't advertise they will discount. But If you are a serious buyer and willing to give them you're Credit Card # they will work with you and give you free shipping and no sales tax.

 

[cpp]

Music Direct has taken a lot of business away from Brick and Mortar stores. I don't know If this is true or not but I heard they are selling 30 million in audio equipment alone not counting software. That is a lot of food off retailers plate.

I do like their 30-day money back guarantee. Haven't really found any dealers in Fla that will let me take equipment home and use it for 30 days and return it. OF course these dealers do not have the inventory of say a Music Direct.

 

[Elliot G.]

Music Direct has taken a lot of business away from Brick and Mortar stores. I don't know If this is true or not but I heard they are selling 30 million in audio equipment alone not counting software. That is a lot of food off retailers plate.

Sir they claim to do 3.8 million which is mostly records. So please try to stay within the borders of reality.
They carry limited selection of HE brands and to be honest 3.8 million would be a nice store if that was gear but doing mail order software that is not the same thing

 

[ack]

Music Direct doesn't advertise they will discount. But If you are a serious buyer and willing to give them you're Credit Card # they will work with you and give you free shipping and no sales tax.

Yes, and no one really advertises that they discount.

 

[taters]

Sir they claim to do 3.8 million which is mostly records. So please try to stay within the borders of reality.
They carry limited selection of HE brands and to be honest 3.8 million would be a nice store if that was gear but doing mail order software that is not the same thing

They do a lot more than that in Hardware. 3.8 million is nothing. They advertise all over the world. Hell, some small retail store can do a million a year.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Sir they claim to do 3.8 million which is mostly records. So please try to stay within the borders of reality.
They carry limited selection of HE brands and to be honest 3.8 million would be a nice store if that was gear but doing mail order software that is not the same thing

Does or doesn't that figure include their owning BAT and selling it through MD?

 

[Garth]

Bricks and Mortar for me

I am doing some marketing research. Would you prefer to buy high end products at significant discounted prices direct from the manufacturer with little or no service except warranty or buy them from a dealer which would mean being able to possibly audition and have delivery and installation services.

Direct would mean shipped directly to your home ( freight charges probably added) sales tax might not be applicable as well. You would need to accept , unpack, and set up and install yourself unless you were willing to pay for such services from the manufacturer.

versus the current system and higher pricing

Any comments?
Thanks

I use the tried and true Bricks and mortar I do go to a few shows more for fun than anything . I may listen to a given piece for a week or a month before buying it. Reviews are fine to read they may point out something I did not know see or hear but in the end they are someone I do not know opinion. I look at the quality and the likely hood of break downs (no tubes thank you anyway) good clear magical sound the gear that halts time and space. I am vain enough I do not want the system to look like a steam punk convention. Not big on the Jules Verne Nautilus look is not for me either . clean lines heavy gear good sound a cold drink and I am in for the night. As well audio forms are just for fun and info I do not buy on line . I do not expect anyone to get what I like in gear or sound I respect anyone who is putting a good system together for reasons that are true to what they believe. This is not a team sport or a money thing or a one up. It is a hobby that is safe rewarding and keeps one out of trouble most of the time anyway.

 

[Elliot G.]

They do a lot more than that in Hardware. 3.8 million is nothing. They advertise all over the world. Hell, some small retail store can do a million a year.

More one man opinion? The number I quoted was from their financials....yours from ????

 

[Elliot G.]

Does or doesn't that figure include their owning BAT and selling it through MD?

Myles what do you mean?
3.8 million ois a lot of audio gear and the overwhelming majority of Audio Stores DO NOT do that. The larger places which do lots of custom will but a plain audio store very few will approach 2 million.
taters has NO clue what he is talking about.
I know he doesnt

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles what do you mean?
3.8 million ois a lot of audio gear and the overwhelming majority of Audio Stores DO NOT do that. The larger places which do lots of custom will but a plain audio store very few will approach 2 million.
taters has NO clue what he is talking about.
I know he doesnt

Just that MD now owns BAT and markets the products directly through MD and also through the standard dealer routes. Was wondering if the financials included the return on BAT gear.