Reference Speakers to Audition

[naturephoto1]

If you don't mind me asking Rich, how much were they? I love the look.

I don't have an exact list price from Jonathan Weiss of OMA. Additionally, Jonathan has suggested that he does not plan to post them on the website. But, from our discussions a price of around $36,000 for the production speakers seems about correct. I know that the additional work for the phaser and the Cherry veneer would add at least several thousand to the cost. My estimate for the speakers like mine would be somewhere around $40,000. Each of the speakers is a 2 way design with a tweeter/midrange compression driver loaded in the special aluminum horn on the top of the cabinet (I believe the production model horn will be more round) and 2 15" drivers that are by design also to the best of my knowledge compression loaded horns. All of the drivers are Professional drivers; these are the only high end speakers using these expensive drivers but I believe that there are 2 Professional speakers using these drivers.

Rich

 

[mauidan]

Had the pleasure of hearing the Wilson Sophia 3s powered by ARC 610Ts this week.

If I was investing in "Reference Speakers," the Wilsons new or used would be on the top of my list.

BTW- there's a pair of Wilson MAXX-2s on audiogon for $19K:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1296340357&/Wilson-Audio-MAXX-2-Black

 

[KeithR]

well folks, just ordered the McIntosh 601s after seeing the CES photos---beauties!

 

[TheMadMilkman]

What site did you get the picture from? I hadn't seen anything about McIntosh on any of the ones I've been browsing.

 

[mauidan]

well folks, just ordered the McIntosh 601s after seeing the CES photos---beauties!

View attachment 1253

Should look good parked next to your Zu Dominace speakers.

 

[LL21]

FWIW, i agree with devert about some of the older Wilsons. i just traded in my SF Strads for a pair of Wilson X1/Grand Slamms. I was surpised to find when i had them set up for audition in my system that (consistent with what i heard in the store) they actually matched my Strads for the mellifluous musicality in the voices (where i thought the Strads might have the edge)...and then proceeded to far outpace the Strads on limitless dynamics, soundstage, detailing, and all the things which Wilsons do well.

As for subs and main speakers, i will say i have been using this combination for 15 years because i am a bass freak. But whereas i knew i was compromising 15 years ago with the proper blend...i find now that even with the Wilsons i used my Velodyne DD-18. The low pass is set to 35hz with a 48db roll-off...but given my musical tastes, it is surprising how often the sub participates in the music. What can i say?...as i confessed...'bass freak'.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Had the pleasure of hearing the Wilson Sophia 3s powered by ARC 610Ts this week.

If I was investing in "Reference Speakers," the Wilsons new or used would be on the top of my list.

BTW- there's a pair of Wilson MAXX-2s on audiogon for $19K:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1296340357&/Wilson-Audio-MAXX-2-Black

Some people feel that the Sashas are better than Dave's bigger speakers now. No offense intended Steve I'm not so sure that Dave doesn't agree and I wouldn't be surprised to see updates to the bigger speakers in the Wilson line now.

 

[LL21]

Myles, i have enjoyed reading your posts for years, and have a few that continue to re-read on equipment that i am considering s/hand. Keep writing!!!

I will say that the Sashas were the first of the smaller Wilsons that I could live with very happily. I very much respected but did not love its earlier predecessors. The voicing of the Sasha seems different...still very much in the line of Wilson's quest for accuracy, control and detail...but the midrange and the general voicing seems smoother/more full/mellifluous without syrup. i prefer them to the Maxx II which i have heard in the same room/setup, mainly for their voicing not for their dynamic capabilities. i suspect (perhaps incorrectly) that they will also be somewhat more flexible with their adaptability with other electronics because of this voicing. Almost a similar evolution in the way that SS and Tubes at the very best levels sound more similar to each today, than they did 20 years ago. David Wilson has never compromised for his quest for inert cabinets, accuracy, dynamics, speed...and now he seems to have kept this while capturing a touch of a warmer? voice.

That said, i still feel like the Sashas are physically up against physics when it comes to a comparison with the largest Wilsons (X1 and Steve's X2) The largest Wilsons possess a few qualities (which matter to me) that the Sashas do not possess in the same quantity: first and foremost, the bigger Wilson's are effortless, effortless, effortless in their delivery. Couple this with an almost obsessive effort to deliver pitch-perfect detailing, accuracy, transparency, etc...David Wilson has managed to deliver a transducer that almost disappears when set up properly. It is the closest i have heard to sound just passing through 2 large obelisques that i have personally witnessed. At any volume, of any level of complexity...orchestral/choral, rap/hip hop/piano/smaller jazz ensembles, deep house. Sound...music just seems to pass through them and come out the other side.

The one thing where i do feel the Sashas surpass the X1 is that it seems easier to set it up so that it balances being accurate, quick, transparent...with also being somehow more mellifluous without syrup. The X1 is capable of doing this...it replaced my Sonus Faber Strads which i loved and were dialed in with CJ and Zanden tubes, plus Gryphon Antileon (ie, warm)...but boy does it take an enormous effort to set up!!!!!!!!!! Absolute Sounds and KJ West One took 8 hours to set them up...resoldering resistors twice, for example, to adjust for the treble dispersion in my room. Smokes!...that was a ton of effort on their part. But once dialed in, they are magic in a way that i have yet to hear from the smaller Wilsons (to these ears).

 

[Steve williams]

when I owned the X-1 Series lll's it was a bear to set up and as pointed out can take many hours whereas the X-2 can be set up in under half the time

 

[LL21]

Hi Steve,

Thanks again for your advice when i was planning on trading in my Strads for the Wilson X-1s some time back. i have finally dialed them in...and can only say good things about them. They are for me, a dream speaker. As you can see, i have joined Whats Best...thanks for the kind invitation. Interesting what you say about the Alexandrias and set up. Good to know. For now, i am just enjoying my system. it really matches/exceeds the musicality/smooth mid-range of my SF Strads and exceeds them in the realm of dynamics, detail, soundstaging and effortlessness.

 

[KeithR]

What site did you get the picture from? I hadn't seen anything about McIntosh on any of the ones I've been browsing.

check out the two McIntosh forums online....that is where the pic came from.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles, i have enjoyed reading your posts for years, and have a few that continue to re-read on equipment that i am considering s/hand. Keep writing!!!

I will say that the Sashas were the first of the smaller Wilsons that I could live with very happily. I very much respected but did not love its earlier predecessors. The voicing of the Sasha seems different...still very much in the line of Wilson's quest for accuracy, control and detail...but the midrange and the general voicing seems smoother/more full/mellifluous without syrup. i prefer them to the Maxx II which i have heard in the same room/setup, mainly for their voicing not for their dynamic capabilities. i suspect (perhaps incorrectly) that they will also be somewhat more flexible with their adaptability with other electronics because of this voicing. Almost a similar evolution in the way that SS and Tubes at the very best levels sound more similar to each today, than they did 20 years ago. David Wilson has never compromised for his quest for inert cabinets, accuracy, dynamics, speed...and now he seems to have kept this while capturing a touch of a warmer? voice.

That said, i still feel like the Sashas are physically up against physics when it comes to a comparison with the largest Wilsons (X1 and Steve's X2) The largest Wilsons possess a few qualities (which matter to me) that the Sashas do not possess in the same quantity: first and foremost, the bigger Wilson's are effortless, effortless, effortless in their delivery. Couple this with an almost obsessive effort to deliver pitch-perfect detailing, accuracy, transparency, etc...David Wilson has managed to deliver a transducer that almost disappears when set up properly. It is the closest i have heard to sound just passing through 2 large obelisques that i have personally witnessed. At any volume, of any level of complexity...orchestral/choral, rap/hip hop/piano/smaller jazz ensembles, deep house. Sound...music just seems to pass through them and come out the other side.

The one thing where i do feel the Sashas surpass the X1 is that it seems easier to set it up so that it balances being accurate, quick, transparent...with also being somehow more mellifluous without syrup. The X1 is capable of doing this...it replaced my Sonus Faber Strads which i loved and were dialed in with CJ and Zanden tubes, plus Gryphon Antileon (ie, warm)...but boy does it take an enormous effort to set up!!!!!!!!!! Absolute Sounds and KJ West One took 8 hours to set them up...resoldering resistors twice, for example, to adjust for the treble dispersion in my room. Smokes!...that was a ton of effort on their part. But once dialed in, they are magic in a way that i have yet to hear from the smaller Wilsons (to these ears).

Guess I was thinking more in terms of bringing the sasha's new found low level resolution and transparency to the bigger Wilsons. Obviously there are other areas where the Sasha can't compete with their big brothers. If this resolution at lower levels is important to you, as it is with me, then you might like the Sashas more. And I'd like to here the sasha's either with the new VTL series 450 -3 or cj art amps too!

 

[LL21]

Hi Myles,

I respect your opinion on that...for my own personal tastes and priorities, i am happy with my X1s and would not trade for Sashas even though they are the first Watt/Puppy series i could truly live with. On the other hand, you mention the CJ ART amps. i am currently running a CJ ACT 2 preamp...we can move this to another post if that's the appropriate way to do it...but what are your thoughts about the CJ ART 3 preamp vs ACT 2, ARC 5, or Shindo's higher tiered offerings (Masetto, Vosne-Romanee, Giscours)? I have received recommendations from numerous people about these 3 and have read all the various posts, reviews...but i would appreciate your thoughts/advice.

 

[triode]

If the OP has not yet chosen his new speakers, I'd suggest hearing Avantgarde Trio Omegas with a pair (or two) of Basshorns - will be right up the high-sensitivity alley of the Zus (though far beyond at 108dB).

If I had a large enough room (and the coin), those would be the only choice to displace my Duo Omegas.

 

[LL21]

Hi Triode...if that is your system in your picture, it looks very nice!!! i have never heard horn speakers...certainly not at the level of yours. I am going to Audio Exotics in Hong Kong in a couple of weeks and expect that they will have some. Even though i am there to listen to Zanden pre and transport, as well as couple of other electronics...i hope to get a quick taste of horns since i'd really like to learn. In particular, those who favor them...tend to love them. That intrigues me. I have heard dynamic range is incredible, and utterly lifelike is a term often used. Query whether they can play hip hop/rap/deep house which has hugely deep bass compression loudly or whether that is the domain of cones? While i listen to jazz, string quartets and choral, i also listen to a lot of deep house (like right now)...where the floor gently vibrates/rumbles with deep bass even at soft levels. thanks for any advice!

 

[triode]

Query whether they can play hip hop/rap/deep house which has hugely deep bass compression loudly or whether that is the domain of cones?

My Duo Omegas actually use cones (two powered 10" subs per channel) for bass below 140 Hz, and can definitely play deep bass content without any problem (the speakers are rated flat to 22 Hz and likely go lower in-room). True horn bass requires enormous cabinets and a very large room, so many "horn" speakers are hybrids like the Avantgardes.

 

[JackD201]

Lloyd, I'm only an hour and a half away from HK. If you plan on making a quick side trip to Manila just let me know

I'm also big on Deep and Progressive House as well as Progressive Trance.

 

[LL21]

Wow...what a fantastic invitation! if only i had more time! i am literally flying 12 hours each way...for 48 hours on the ground. I am seeing Audio Exotics but unfortuantely will not make it to see your amazing setup!

As for House, here's the top CDs i enjoy playing these days: Konrad Black, Sascha Funke...both on Watergate label, Addicted to House (Harley & Muscle) from Soulstar label, Electro Lounge vol. 2, almost anything from Dennis Ferrer and Ame (i have 3-4 Ame albums...luv 'em all).

next time, i am in Asia...i'll try to swing a flight out to see your amazing setup! BTW, I am auditioning Shindo preamp this weekend...very exciting.

Triode - thanks for that. would love to hear horns...expect to do so in Hong Kong...how do they get the integration in the cones with the horns? i imagine that horns (like 'stats) struggle to integrate due to the speed of the horn? technology has really improved in cones...look at Wilson transient speed...just curious.

 

[SCAudiophile]

To all: alot has happened in the high-end speaker market in the last few years. Is there any interest in reviving this thread and starting a new "Ref Speakers..." list?

 

[Audio_Karma]

Yamaha NS-5000's that are coming on the market next month!