REL vs JL Audio subs

[cjf]

In case folks are not aware of this site linked below and are interested in very thorough measurement data for many different Subs its a good read. The link below is for the JL E110 previously mentioned. No REL tests though. They do have Funk Audio tests..FWIW

You can even overlay multiple Subs to compare their measured performance.

Data-Bass: Subwoofer Measurements

data-bass.com

I have no affiliation with the site linked but I did find the information very helpful during my own purchasing decision a few years ago.

I think you might find that the need to drop big $$$ on a Sub is not necessary unless you just like the brand/style of a particular offering. The reality is, there is only so much you can do with 1 Sub of any size or price unless you have a very small listening room.

The other thing to consider is your intended listening level. The smaller displacement Subs lose steam at elevated listening levels (Say 90db or so) and assuming that maintaining low distortion levels are a priority. This is often overlooked.

One cure for that is to keep adding additional smaller Subs (Assuming you have enough Channels to do so) or start with bigger ones from the get go. I went the later route.

 

[sbo6]

I will mention one con of using the low level inputs. That is if you are running the cables out of a second output from your preamp then noise from the plate amp on the sub is getting fed back into the preamp. There are ways around this.

I'm curious, how is this any different than a preamp feeding speaker amps? It's simply another amp(s).

 

[LL21]

Another awesome subwoofer discussion. ...

...I will mention one con of using the low level inputs. That is if you are running the cables out of a second output from your preamp then noise from the plate amp on the sub is getting fed back into the preamp. There are ways around this.

How do you suggest someone ensure the sub noise does not go back into the preamp? Might any of the Neutrik ground loop-type or hum blockers that connect to RCA or XLR help in reducing this 'backflow' of noise into the preamp?

 

[microstrip]

The biggest decision factor here is their very different modes of connection/setup and how they relate to your particular system configuration. REL is pretty much commited to high-level (speaker-level) connections is contradistinction to almost everybody else in the business although they have made gestures in the direction of low-level (line-level) input. JL offers both and definitely leans in the direction of line-level which definitely permits the implementation of proper system integration, crossover and equalization. IMHO, those facilities are necessary for successful use of subs and, without them, integration is a crap-shoot.

Also, REL's old canard about high level sub connections being valuable to preserve the system/amp tonality is part of that crap-shoot. Whatever tonality we perceive of a sub's contributions is determined by the harmonics which are still provided by the main speaker. What if the reason you are thinking about adding a sub is really due to an LF weakness in the very amp that is now running mains and sub?

REL subs can be used with the common low level XLR or RCA connection - no need to use their awkward preferred method!

 

[jonathanhorwich]

For whatever it is worth, it took me at least 6 months to get my two REL 212SX's integrated with my 96db sensitive Horning Eufrodites. I found that line level is better than the speaker level for my set up. John Hunter of REL said that for people with sensitive speakers the line level is normally better. In my case that was true. But as mentioned in this thread by others, getting the subs integrated is a total bear. And following instructions from the manufacturer did not help me. I ended up doing it totally by ear listening over and over (6 months or more) to my favorite jazz bass performances and recordings. My Volume control is pretty far down so you barely hear the subs even with no music coming through the main speakers but just the subs.

Separately, has anyone found improvement by putting their RELs on audio feet? I've never tried but left the RELs on their own supports but on 4 inch thick maple slabs raising them up a bit. But I have no experience with that end of things.

Thank you.

 

[bryans]

I ended up doing it totally by ear listening over and over (6 months or more) to my favorite jazz bass performances and recordings

This is exactly how I setup everything in my system. Sure one can tell you how they feel it should be setup. But only you can setup your system to how you like to listen to it.

 

[bryans]

REL subs can be used with the common low level XLR or RCA connection - no need to use their awkward preferred method!

I personally don't feel using Rel's High Level connection as being awkward. It seems to be pretty straight forward for me. What do you find being awkward?

 

[dbeau]

For whatever it is worth, it took me at least 6 months to get my two REL 212SX's integrated with my 96db sensitive Horning Eufrodites. I found that line level is better than the speaker level for my set up. John Hunter of REL said that for people with sensitive speakers the line level is normally better. In my case that was true. But as mentioned in this thread by others, getting the subs integrated is a total bear. And following instructions from the manufacturer did not help me. I ended up doing it totally by ear listening over and over (6 months or more) to my favorite jazz bass performances and recordings. My Volume control is pretty far down so you barely hear the subs even with no music coming through the main speakers but just the subs.

Separately, has anyone found improvement by putting their RELs on audio feet? I've never tried but left the RELs on their own supports but on 4 inch thick maple slabs raising them up a bit. But I have no experience with that end of things.

Thank you.

I placed AV EVP isolators under my two REL 25s which resulted in improving (IMO) the clarity and crispness of sub bass.
Mains are WA X1v3 so resulting Cross overs are set at 28 with volume at 26 - I have a large open room.
Every change in kit seems to require reset of subs and, like you have been at this for some time using listening vs. REL set up guide - I tried.
P.S. I use high level outputs which is not awkward on my tube amps.

 

[microstrip]

I personally don't feel using Rel's High Level connection as being awkward. It seems to be pretty straight forward for me. What do you find being awkward?

Because most of the times you are just pushing the limitations of the power amplifier in the bass to the subwoofer. This is particularly true with tube amplifiers.

 

[jonathanhorwich]

I placed AV EVP isolators under my two REL 25s which resulted in improving (IMO) the clarity and crispness of sub bass.
Mains are WA X1v3 so resulting Cross overs are set at 28 with volume at 26 - I have a large open room.
Every change in kit seems to require reset of subs and, like you have been at this for some time using listening vs. REL set up guide - I tried.
P.S. I use high level outputs which is not awkward on my tube amps.

Thank you on the isolators. What is WA X1v3? I couldn't find it on internet. Wilson speakers?
Thanks.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

+1 on the EVPs for REL subs. Also, FWIW I built a platform/device to raise one of the subs about 18" off the floor.

I also did not follow the company advice about placement; corners were waaay too much. I ended up with one sub on a platform near the left speaker, and another (on EVPs) about mid-way on the right sidewall, a few feet from the seating location.

And I feel your pain on taking a long-time to get sorted out. Six months sounds about right.

 

[LL21]

Thank you on the isolators. What is WA X1v3? I couldn't find it on internet. Wilson speakers?
Thanks.

Yes, specifically the Wilson Audio X1 Grand/SLAMMS Series 3

 

[jonathanhorwich]

Yes, specifically the Wilson Audio X1 Grand/SLAMMS Series 3

Oh, nice, and got it.

 

[dbeau]

Thank you on the isolators. What is WA X1v3? I couldn't find it on internet. Wilson speakers?
Thanks.

Yes = Wilson Audio
Grand Slamm speakers

Sorry, did not see LL21 had already informed

 

[thedudeabides]

C

For whatever it is worth, it took me at least 6 months to get my two REL 212SX's integrated with my 96db sensitive Horning Eufrodites. I found that line level is better than the speaker level for my set up. John Hunter of REL said that for people with sensitive speakers the line level is normally better. In my case that was true. But as mentioned in this thread by others, getting the subs integrated is a total bear. And following instructions from the manufacturer did not help me. I ended up doing it totally by ear listening over and over (6 months or more) to my favorite jazz bass performances and recordings. My Volume control is pretty far down so you barely hear the subs even with no music coming through the main speakers but just the subs.

Separately, has anyone found improvement by putting their RELs on audio feet? I've never tried but left the RELs on their own supports but on 4 inch thick maple slabs raising them up a bit. But I have no experience with that end of things.

Thank you.

Check out the "Subdude" platform loo k. Cheap and provides effective isolation between the sub and the floor. Eliminates floor vibration caused by the sub. Have the REL T9X and use the high level connect. Sounds very musical with my Pulsars.

 

[jonathanhorwich]

Thank you. I am familiar with those. Did you use them beneficially under your REL?

 

[itay123]

After owning a JL F113, 2xF110, and after hearing countless times all JL models.
I prefer REL's approach to bass.

 

[LL21]

After owning a JL F113, 2xF110, and after hearing countless times all JL models.
I prefer REL's approach to bass.

Big admirer of your system. What in particular do you prefer about REL? In terms of bass what is better about them for you? Thanks for any insights!

 

[itay123]

REL
More transparent, smoother and integrated.

 

[LL21]

REL
More transparent, smoother and integrated.

Thank you.