Robert Koda K160 Amps are on their way finally!

[XV-1]

Hah! I K-N-E-W someone would say that! I am sure they would if I asked...but given how few in the world I believe there, I am sure it would be quite a long wait. That said, I cannot think of more than 1 possibly 2 other amps in the world (Boulder 3060) I would wish to hear besides the Gryphon Mephisto and Robert Koda K160s (which I just realized are also pure Class A Solid State). Lets get the Gryphon Mephisto back in from the shop, and I suspect I will very happy just settle down into pure music.

C'mon Lloyd. You know you want to just trade in on the K160's. The XLF's are perfect for them.

 

[nickif]

My suggestion? just try not to be too curious about the K160, unless you are ready to take the plunge

 

[LL21]

Fair enough! I suspect from the initial comments I have read on AE, here and elsewhere that the Koda K160 follows very closely the traits of the K15EX...purity of tone, exceptionally low noise floor as a means to enabling detail to pour forth...as opposed to hyper sharpening through negative feedback and an exceedingly balanced spectrum. Interestingly, I am told the K15EX (vs original K15) gained power in the bass (utterly in control) which relates to my queries around K160.

Moving to the K160...indications are it is similar to K15EX. The question is do I wish to adjust the system in that direction...or do I stick with Gryphon's fulsome depth of sound. The Gryphon delivers a tectonic plate-like grunt that effortlessly wells forth creating super dynamic powerful foundational lower registers...but ALSO sets into stone the mid-registers thereby creating real soundstage. Yes, the Mephisto might not have as low a noise floor, and therefore lose some of the micro nuances of the K160...but that fullness of notes and foundational element/rock-solidity is really special. The question is whether I would take one character over the other.

Put another way, some have said that at Zanden, Yamada San created his 4-box digital, pre and amp in the following manner to create the result of sound he envisioned:
- Colorful full palette of Zanden digital
- Clear as water preamp
- Amp with some 'oomf' in the lower registers (not necessarily power but fullness)

Along those lines, would I follow Yamada-San, owning his digital and now Robert's K15EX (also supremely clear)...and go Gryphon (ie, "oomf")...or follow Koch-San by going K15EX and K160?

 

[nickif]

I’ve only heard Mephisto in different set-up but based on what I heard, it is not in the same league with K160. Therefore K160 is easily a step-up from Mephisto. If you have the budget, I’d say, again, go for it and never look back

 

[LL21]

I’ve only heard Mephisto in different set-up but based on what I heard, it is not in the same league with K160. Therefore K160 is easily a step-up from Mephisto. If you have the budget, I’d say, again, go for it and never look back

Thank you! That is very, very interesting. I fully recognize you are extrapolating...but if you dont mind, are there any particular observations/traits of the K160 that put it in a different league from the Mephisto?

 

[LL21]

BTW, has anyone read the description of the K160 and compared it with the description of the Constellation Hercules II?

Constellation Hercules II (from HiFi+ http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/constellation-audio-hercules-ii-stereo-power-amplifier/?page=2)
"This is an amplifier that uses all of the strengths of a balanced amplifier (such as a low noise floor, greater dynamic range, and an ability to use long cable without significantly changing the sound), and combines them with the refined and sophisticated sound of a single-ended design. Instead of the usual arrangement of P-type (Positive-Negative-Positive) transistors handling the positive rail of the balanced line, and N-type (Negative-Positive-Negative) transistors handling the negative rail, the Hercules II modules are two single-ended amplifier designs, ending in N-type transistors in the output stage. This design has significant advantages over other circuits, because N-type and P-type transistors behave very differently, and that difference undermines the sound quality.
Constellation’s amplifier design has an additional advantage to the circuit: it makes it inherently stable into all kinds of loudspeaker loads. As a result, Constellation Audio could remove the Zobel network, commonly found on amplifiers as a form of high-frequency protection circuit, for even better performance.
By making a set of single-ended N-type circuits, and stripping away the Zobel network, Constellation Audio discovered it had cracked the code to making small Class A amplifiers in very large packages, and combining the refinement and pace so loved by small-amp aficionados, with big amp range and scale. A perfect partnership."

Robert Koda K160 (from AE https://audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13089/robert-koda-s-ground-breaking-amplifier-??-takumi-k160-mono-amplifier-k15ex-k10)

Also 2-stage: "For the input stage, a super quiet, unusually high voltage power supply design based upon the phenomenal Takumi MC One phono equaliser with "Super Ground" integral.
The output stage employs the most essential element - a double single-ended class A topology with an idle current in excess of eight amps, with a ten fold reduction in distortion while delivering four times the power power into low impedances. Both the new input stage and the newly adapted, unique output stage further contribute to the absence of "smearing". "
Also uses only N-type resistors and no P-type

 

[nickif]

Thank you! That is very, very interesting. I fully recognize you are extrapolating...but if you dont mind, are there any particular observations/traits of the K160 that put it in a different league from the Mephisto?

The K160 is more transparent, more detailed, much faster. The only thing the Mesphisto might have an edge is the mid-bass is fuller however might be a bit “ too full” IMHO.

 

[LL21]

The K160 is more transparent, more detailed, much faster. The only thing the Mesphisto might have an edge is the mid-bass is fuller however might be a bit “ too full” IMHO.

Thank you. That was exactly the impression I had gathered from reading many descriptions of the sound and also reading about the 'philosophy' behind this design. A lot to consider...always fun!

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus...I dont know how i missed your response. Thank you! I hope you are continuing to enjoy your magnificent K160s! As you know, Absolute Sounds became the importer for Robert Koda several weeks ago, and my decision to purchase was then directed over to them by Robert who has been incredibly helpful.

I wanted to thank you, CMarin, Nickif, Jazzhead, CKK, Howiebrou and others who all kindly gave me advice regarding my decision on the K15EX. It truly is a special preamp, and I now have a better appreciation of the quality and particularly nuanced, incredibly low-noise, pure and powerful sound you are enjoying.

I really would be curious to know what happens in our system if we substituted the K160s for the Gryphon Mephisto.

Nice to hear that you have Purchased the Koda K15EX you cant go wrong also in the future what ever you will upgrade to the K15EX is ready to lift together always... Enjoy!

 

[amadeus]

Or bring your Mephisto on a road trip and go visit Amadeus in the Netherlands. That would be an epic discovery.

When there is no "Corona Code Red" anymore yo guys are welcome to visit me and my Music Temple!

 

[microstrip]

BTW, has anyone read the description of the K160 and compared it with the description of the Constellation Hercules II?

Constellation Hercules II (from HiFi+ http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/constellation-audio-hercules-ii-stereo-power-amplifier/?page=2)
"This is an amplifier that uses all of the strengths of a balanced amplifier (such as a low noise floor, greater dynamic range, and an ability to use long cable without significantly changing the sound), and combines them with the refined and sophisticated sound of a single-ended design. Instead of the usual arrangement of P-type (Positive-Negative-Positive) transistors handling the positive rail of the balanced line, and N-type (Negative-Positive-Negative) transistors handling the negative rail, the Hercules II modules are two single-ended amplifier designs, ending in N-type transistors in the output stage. This design has significant advantages over other circuits, because N-type and P-type transistors behave very differently, and that difference undermines the sound quality.
Constellation’s amplifier design has an additional advantage to the circuit: it makes it inherently stable into all kinds of loudspeaker loads. As a result, Constellation Audio could remove the Zobel network, commonly found on amplifiers as a form of high-frequency protection circuit, for even better performance.
By making a set of single-ended N-type circuits, and stripping away the Zobel network, Constellation Audio discovered it had cracked the code to making small Class A amplifiers in very large packages, and combining the refinement and pace so loved by small-amp aficionados, with big amp range and scale. A perfect partnership."

Robert Koda K160 (from AE https://audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13089/robert-koda-s-ground-breaking-amplifier-??-takumi-k160-mono-amplifier-k15ex-k10)

Also 2-stage: "For the input stage, a super quiet, unusually high voltage power supply design based upon the phenomenal Takumi MC One phono equaliser with "Super Ground" integral.
The output stage employs the most essential element - a double single-ended class A topology with an idle current in excess of eight amps, with a ten fold reduction in distortion while delivering four times the power power into low impedances. Both the new input stage and the newly adapted, unique output stage further contribute to the absence of "smearing". "
Also uses only N-type resistors and no P-type

Well, perhaps it is time to remember that the Quad 303, developed in the late 70's, also used a NPN only triplet configuration output stage. Curiously a few people say it is the best sounding Quad amplifier. BTW, the output is capacitor coupled!

 

[amadeus]

I’ve only heard Mephisto in different set-up but based on what I heard, it is not in the same league with K160. Therefore K160 is easily a step-up from Mephisto. If you have the budget, I’d say, again, go for it and never look back

I completely agree whit Nickif the Gryphon Mephisto which i owned and used for few years as second amp is a great real Class A powerful and very musical amp its high standard definitely ... The Koda K160 on other hand is another amp another level it costs double the Mephisto mono s even but its almost double in everything and in ultra high end "double price = double performance" is non heard of mostly double price is 20% better sometimes even less... On the other hand Koda needs beter stand beter matching power cords the complete... The system needs rethinking words and loads more insight and knowledge to get the butt of his tongue heard but when you succeed this the dynamism and poetic natural pallets of musical spectrum. Mephisto is more easy to setup and let it sing and its definitely worth the money K160 is Masterclass for a Audiophile or Mephisto is Monnet everybody likes it K160 Picasso everybody talks about it and just a few get the Magic of it.

 

[amadeus]

Btw i cant play any music since 10 days because i sold my beloved Peak Consult Dragon Legend Speakers and i am waiting for my new Speakers to be delivered soon.

 

[amadeus]

The K160 is more transparent, more detailed, much faster. The only thing the Mesphisto might have an edge is the mid-bass is fuller however might be a bit “ too full” IMHO.

Dear Nickif you have a great system!

Are you the person that is using the Arya Audio Tweeter as added tweeter on the Cessaro Wagner speakers?
Can you tell us about this tweeter???

 

[LL21]

Btw i cant play any music since 10 days because i sold my beloved Peak Consult Dragon Legend Speakers and i am waiting for my new Speakers to be delivered soon.

W-O-W! New Chukoh, New K160s...for a new speaker! What is it? Did you find the Arrakis?

 

[LL21]

I completely agree whit Nickif the Gryphon Mephisto which i owned and used for few years as second amp is a great real Class A powerful and very musical amp its high standard definitely ... The Koda K160 on other hand is another amp another level it costs double the Mephisto mono s even but its almost double in everything and in ultra high end "double price = double performance" is non heard of mostly double price is 20% better sometimes even less... On the other hand Koda needs beter stand beter matching power cords the complete... The system needs rethinking words and loads more insight and knowledge to get the butt of his tongue heard but when you succeed this the dynamism and poetic natural pallets of musical spectrum. Mephisto is more easy to setup and let it sing and its definitely worth the money K160 is Masterclass for a Audiophile or Mephisto is Monnet everybody likes it K160 Picasso everybody talks about it and just a few get the Magic of it.

What an interesting set of comparisons from probably one of a handful of people who can speak about these 2 mighty amps! Thanks for that...very interesting. Would love to hear the K15EX's 'sibling' K160 some day.

 

[LL21]

Well, perhaps it is time to remember that the Quad 303, developed in the late 70's, also used a NPN only triplet configuration output stage. Curiously a few people say it is the best sounding Quad amplifier. BTW, the output is capacitor coupled!

Hi Micro - i think you also quite like the Constellation Hercules II if I am correct? I thought I read somewhere you said it was a truly great amplifier.

 

[LL21]

Nice to hear that you have Purchased the Koda K15EX you cant go wrong also in the future what ever you will upgrade to the K15EX is ready to lift together always... Enjoy!

It was really great to get your advice and thank you for your time as a strong and very articulate voice for Robert Koda.

 

[amadeus]

W-O-W! New Chukoh, New K160s...for a new speaker! What is it? Did you find the Arrakis?

I will get my "new" speakers in few days maybe next week they are Demo Models of Sonus Faber Fenice or so called "The Sonus Faber" speakers they were made in total 30 pairs.

Below is a picture of "The Sonus Faber" i am looking forward setting them up.

 

[LL21]

I will get my "new" speakers in few days maybe next week they are Demo Models of Sonus Faber Fenice or so called "The Sonus Faber" speakers they were made in total 30 pairs.

Below is a picture of "The Sonus Faber" i am looking forward setting them up.

Wow! Congrats! That is another rare piece of audio high end! Your signature definitely needs updating...or should we say upgrading?