Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades

[Ron Resnick]

The trenches are partially dug. No rods have been placed.

From my amateur radio hobby I am sympathetic to the view that the horizontal rods could create what is called an end-fed dipole antenna and be resonant around the 80 meter amateur band.

I emailed these questions to the grounding company, the electrical consultant and Torus. I will report what they say.

In the meantime, Dave and Davey, even assuming the horizontal ground rod system negatively affects sound quality how does that affect jump the isolation transformer and get into the audio system?

And why is a low resistance to ground desirable for an audio system anyway?

 

[ddk]

Dear Dave and Davey, thank you very much for your input. I will revisit the whole horizontal ground rod project.

I do know that one 8 foot ground rod into the dry, non-conductive Los Angeles dirt will not create an electrically effective ground, so I'm not sure what to do.

I live in the high desert pretty dry too, if you're worried get them to bond the audio panel to your main breaker. I understand your dilemma but don't know how important the additional cost is for you, install both and decide later? If nothing else its a learning experience, that's why I did it.

david

 

[ddk]

. In the meantime, Dave and Davey, even assuming the horizontal ground rod system negatively affects sound quality how does that affect jump the isolation transformer and get into the audio system?

Isolation transformers don't isolate everything, electrical measurements are different from sonic effects. The isolation transformer also has a direct impact on your sound, do you have a consultant or you're doing all this on your own? Will Torus really know anything about high end sound and what you want for high end sound?

david

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear Dave,

Those are all completely fair and excellent questions. I do not know to a certainty the answer to any of these questions.

The horizontal ground I am not sure about, but I am comfortable that balanced power make sense to me (and, I believe, to Jim White, of Aesthetix, who makes my phono preamp) and that the isolation transformer makes sense to me.

 

[DaveyF]

Ron, since you are also in S.Calif, and are susceptible to the same type of soil, why don't you simply make sure your electrician installs two (2) ground rods at the panel. This is what I have done and I'm fairly certain after talking with my electrical engineering friend that it will be the best solution. Plus, it is the current code.

 

[Ron Resnick]

How would you describe the difference in sound from your system between the elaborate horizontal ground system and the conventional vertical ground rod?

 

[ddk]

How would you describe the difference in sound from your system between the elaborate horizontal ground system and the conventional vertical ground rod?

I simply can't listen to the horizontal ground system!

I was warned in advance that it won't sound right so I went into it knowing that, I did it as an experiment to better understand the affects of ground on the overall sound of the system. I actually dug it up 3 times using different types and size of conductors to hear their effects. The one thing that I was promised was a probable elimination of ground loops and lower noise floor as a result of the low resistance, turned out not be true.

david

 

[Ron Resnick]

And now you just have one conventional vertical eight-foot ground rod?

 

[LL21]

I simply can't listen to the horizontal ground system!

I was warned in advance that it won't sound right so I went into it knowing that, I did it as an experiment to better understand the affects of ground on the overall sound of the system. I actually dug it up 3 times using different types and size of conductors to hear their effects. The one thing that I was promised was a probable elimination of ground loops and lower noise floor as a result of the low resistance, turned out not be true.

david

You are SERIOUSLY committed! I like it! Not just a fount of knowledge...more like Iguacu Falls!

 

[Barry]

If you're going for a vertical ground rod system, especially in a dry area, you might find this article on deep earth grounding of some interest. It may be advantageous to due some soil resistivity testing since that is critical.

http://www.cpccorp.com/deep.htm

A quick reading of several articles on this topic and the related regulatory requirements (Article 250 NEC code) are, as you might expect, focused primarily on protecting people and buildings from electrical faults and lightning strikes rather than lowering electrical noise. Good luck with this!

 

[ddk]

And now you just have one conventional vertical eight-foot ground rod?

I have 3 different ground systems installed but use the single rod for listening, very similar to Bruce's diagram only difference is the way we're grounding the components.

david

 

[ddk]

You are SERIOUSLY committed! I like it! Not just a fount of knowledge...more like Iguacu Falls!

Or I have way too much time on my hands ...

 

[BruceD]

Or I have way too much time on my hands ...

But we all agree you are more than generous with that time on here

BruceD

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have 3 different ground systems installed but use the single rod for listening, very similar to Bruce's diagram only difference is the way we're grounding the components.

david

Dear David, My understanding was that by minimizing the resistance to ground we can lower the overall noise floor of the system. So you are not concerned primarily about minimizing the resistance to ground? Do you have any idea what your basic vertical ground rod achieves as a resistance to ground?

 

[Ron Resnick]

But we all agree you are more than generous with that time on here

BruceD

David sure is generous with his time!

 

[Ron Resnick]

The one thing that I was promised was a probable elimination of ground loops and lower noise floor as a result of the low resistance, turned out not be true.

That is exactly what I have been promised, and that is exactly why I embarked on this grounding project!

 

[ddk]

That is exactly what I have been promised, and that is exactly why I embarked on this grounding project!

Even with 115db sensitive speakers I hear no difference in noise levels between the single 8' rod and the horizontal network, I would have never done it had I known this in advance. I just had to find out! Stick with Bruce's diagram and you won't go wrong, the dedicated earth has many benefits.

david

 

[ddk]

Dear Bruce & Ron, appreciate the kind note, thank you!

But we all agree you are more than generous with that time on here

BruceD

David sure is generous with his time!

 

[Ron Resnick]

My grounding technician did some additional calculations and, in my soil, a 10' ground rod achieves a resistance to ground of 69 ohms, and a 15' ground rod achieves a resistance to ground of 51 ohms. That does not sound too great, if I want a low resistance to ground.

The horizontal ground rod system he designed achieves a resistance to ground of 10 ohms or less.

 

[ddk]

My grounding technician did some additional calculations and, in my soil, a 10' ground rod achieves a resistance to ground of 69 ohms, and a 15' ground rod achieves a resistance to ground of 51 ohms. That does not sound too great, if I want a low resistance to ground.

The horizontal ground rod system he designed achieves a resistance to ground of 10 ohms or less.

Just do both Ron, you'll always wonder which is better if you didn't. It seems like you already budgeted for the horizontal system it doesn't cost much to add an 8'-10' rod just keep it a decent distance away from the one. Then you can swap the ground strap to the panel between them and decide for yourself which sounds better.

david