Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Thats what I use.. 5kw pure sine wave convertor , fed by 6 x 200ah deep cycle batts.. solar charged
Cant say that it gave me any better sound tho .. we have power problems in SA .. surges , brownouts , sags , rolling blackouts...hence me using it
Cant say that it gave me any better sound tho .. we have power problems in SA .. surges , brownouts , sags , rolling blackouts...hence me using it
Right but you have balanced power and such too right?
I would never expect better sound from batteries, but I'm sure it could be very good.
Only "conditioning" I have is the inverter .. its got its own DB board and is completely independant of the house power supply .. I use nothing else fancy re power.. stock power cables , stock multiplugs and so on.
I did have a hum problem with 2 of my subs when I used the house power supply to them , not daisychaining the low level input and changing them to work on the inverter circuit cured that
total cost of the battery setup was about $2200 .. including installation etc .. the biggest advantage is that during the rolling blackouts , I can still listen to music and do internet etc and even more than that , I dont have to run around resetting everything after a blackout
I did have a hum problem with 2 of my subs when I used the house power supply to them , not daisychaining the low level input and changing them to work on the inverter circuit cured that
total cost of the battery setup was about $2200 .. including installation etc .. the biggest advantage is that during the rolling blackouts , I can still listen to music and do internet etc and even more than that , I dont have to run around resetting everything after a blackout
My mistake. I highly suggest some kind of control for noise for anyone using an inverter. The "straight to the wall" purity doesn't work.
Bear in mind I use a pure sine wave inverter which is pretty much noise free .. not a square wave or modified sine wave which does inject noise .. never use a sq wave (the worst) or modded sine wave inverter if you want really clean power
Hi
Where I live I am forced to use an inverter too... I, however put my system (headphones-based for now) on a double conversion Data-center type 3000 VA UPS. They, by their very nature have to filter for EMI and RFI. I have written quite a bit about those but I seem to be the only audiophile I know doing so... and frankly no one can tell me in what way most if not any audiophile branded solution/power conditioning solution would be superior to a data center double conversion UPS which produces its own power, filters it, stabilize it to a few percentage points, has incredibly low harmonic distortion at loads most HiFi systems do not draw and provide you a few minutes of power in the case of total black-out... But we know in our hobby, facts are not enough to sway the religious.
For the record I think I hear a difference between the system on the mains (commercial AC)mains and the Double conversion UPS. It is one of those things I have been doing for many years and haven't bother to check if it holds true or if it is my biases at play... I do know however that my gears are better protected using these anyway plus I get them second-hand off e-Bay or off specialized Data power specialist at an attractive price so ...
Where I live I am forced to use an inverter too... I, however put my system (headphones-based for now) on a double conversion Data-center type 3000 VA UPS. They, by their very nature have to filter for EMI and RFI. I have written quite a bit about those but I seem to be the only audiophile I know doing so... and frankly no one can tell me in what way most if not any audiophile branded solution/power conditioning solution would be superior to a data center double conversion UPS which produces its own power, filters it, stabilize it to a few percentage points, has incredibly low harmonic distortion at loads most HiFi systems do not draw and provide you a few minutes of power in the case of total black-out... But we know in our hobby, facts are not enough to sway the religious.
For the record I think I hear a difference between the system on the mains (commercial AC)mains and the Double conversion UPS. It is one of those things I have been doing for many years and haven't bother to check if it holds true or if it is my biases at play... I do know however that my gears are better protected using these anyway plus I get them second-hand off e-Bay or off specialized Data power specialist at an attractive price so ...
After months of analysis by general contractors and structural engineers the final conclusion is that it would cost an estimated $200,000 to extend by five feet the back wall of my listening room onto my outdoor deck. There is no way to re-locate a structural column which is right behind my left ear in the listening position. So the room extension would not even allow me to re-locate this column and solve the problem of having it right behind my left ear. Overall, it is not worth $200,000 just to have the sound swirling around a few get behind my head.
The solution for the column will be to move my listening seat a few feet into the room, so the beam is not right behind my left ear, and, if necessary, move the speakers a bit closer together.
The solution for the column will be to move my listening seat a few feet into the room, so the beam is not right behind my left ear, and, if necessary, move the speakers a bit closer together.
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Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi Ron
I've been to your house and seen the structural problems and as you said spending $200K for nor reason is silly. Besides wouldn't it start to encroach upon your pool deck
I've been to your house and seen the structural problems and as you said spending $200K for nor reason is silly. Besides wouldn't it start to encroach upon your pool deck
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
With the view you have from up there Ron I would keep the money and enjoy that view from your deck. You won't see it from your listening position even with the extension.
That's way too much. I take it they'd have to structurally redesign part of the house and tear apart a lot more than that room? For a fraction of that price you could build a new different room that's better, as an attachment, if your property allowed and you wanted it in such location. I however understand not wanting that, and appreciating specific room and access.
How big is the room going to end up being?
How big is the room going to end up being?
Ron, that $200K estimate could end up being $225-250K when all is said and done. Estimates/quotes are often low, especially if unforeseen issues arise. It seems that you are making the right decision to not go forward. I like Folsom's suggestion that there may be an alternative option in another location, though that all depends on how you listen, public vs. private dedicated listening room. These things are not so easy.
Good point, depends on if you know the contractor etc. I mean, $200k builds an entire new 2bd house... (1200sq) you got options.
There is no way to add a room on to my existing house. There is a relatively flat area down the hill on which I could build a freestanding building. But I know if I have to get dressed and go outside to listen to music I will use the stereo less.
The room will remain the existing dimensions of 20 feet wide by 25 feet long by 14 feet tall.
Totally agree. The engineering for Ron wanted to do is also the kind that is prone to surprises. I recall it was an extension that might involve some cantilevering or weight distribution using steel beams...
Plus, no room is perfect. Ron - Imagine what $200K in your system setup, and room treatments (customized, hidden, placed behind walls so they're invisible, etc) would get you. Probably a ton of change in your pocket and a fantastic sounding room.
Ron, the issue I see is the size of the room and the type and size of speaker that you want to buy. I don't have experience with these massive, four tower, full range speaker systems that you have been auditioning lately. Do you feel that your room, at its current size, can not handle such a speaker system? During your recent auditions, have you heard systems that are nearly as full range and impactful, but do not require so much space to reach their sonic potential. Well selected room treatment can do wonders. So can the construction materials of the walls themselves. That $200K+ will go a long way to optimizing what you now have.
If you have definitely decided not to extend your room, I would think a serious investigation with a leading acoustic engineer would be the next step, and then trying to determine if those large systems will work in your room. You have an ambitious goal. And you have the time and interest to ask the appropriate questions of the right experts. I am not sure how easy it will be, but you seem able to put in the work to make this happen.
It is a very interesting thread. Thank you for sharing your project with the forum.
If you have definitely decided not to extend your room, I would think a serious investigation with a leading acoustic engineer would be the next step, and then trying to determine if those large systems will work in your room. You have an ambitious goal. And you have the time and interest to ask the appropriate questions of the right experts. I am not sure how easy it will be, but you seem able to put in the work to make this happen.
It is a very interesting thread. Thank you for sharing your project with the forum.
Thank you for the advice and support, gentlemen. I appreciate it!
I engaged a year ago the same acoustician with whom Steve worked. But until the room is put back together there is no point in having her come over.
I am envisioning a three-sided (three-sided because I do not like to damp the front wall behind dipole speakers) acoustic-material lined drape arrangement, very similar to what Steve installed. Since my room is a dedicated space but not an enclosed room the three sided drape would also allow me to "rectangularize" the room visually, as well as acoustically, and set the room off visually from the kitchen on one side and the equipment room not the other side.
I think Pendagons (positioned right up against each other, side-by-side, each pair of columns is not huge) could be installed in my room, but I think Genesis 1.2s would be questionable.
I engaged a year ago the same acoustician with whom Steve worked. But until the room is put back together there is no point in having her come over.
I am envisioning a three-sided (three-sided because I do not like to damp the front wall behind dipole speakers) acoustic-material lined drape arrangement, very similar to what Steve installed. Since my room is a dedicated space but not an enclosed room the three sided drape would also allow me to "rectangularize" the room visually, as well as acoustically, and set the room off visually from the kitchen on one side and the equipment room not the other side.
I think Pendagons (positioned right up against each other, side-by-side, each pair of columns is not huge) could be installed in my room, but I think Genesis 1.2s would be questionable.
After being in Steve's well treated average sized room, a Rives audio room of average size, 3 full SMT treated small rooms, Marty's well treated big room, and some big untreated rooms, treatment can only get you so far without size. Small but treated rooms still have issues, and while I am sure they would work better than the room untreated, those issues IMO can be rid of only through DRC, so spending loads on acoustic treatment to me does not make sense. Sure, the right corner traps and diffusers, some helmholtz, curtains over glass, and something on the floor. If i had the money, I would build the right size room, add a little bit of treatment, and that would work. If I did not have the right size room and still had issues after basic treatment, I would add room correction
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