Sonus Faber Aida vs. Wilson XLF (with the MBL 101 Extreme thrown-in for fun)

[LL21]

Loyd,

I have listened to the TheSonusfaber several times. They were easily the best speaker I have ever listened to in their capability of recreating a facsimile as close as I have ever seen (heard, sorry) of a symphonic orchestra either or of a small vocal ensemble. However I listened to them with a really good system, including the best ancillaries that could satisfy my preferences (high power tubes) as we like to say in WBF. The placement of the speakers in the room was not optimum - it seemed to me they need a large room, but there was something dangerously tempting in this system. But, in all fairness, I could not separate what was the part due to the source, amplification and speakers.

The first time I listened to the Aida's they were just taken from the box. I have long experience with Sonus faber speakers and it is my non scientific conviction that Sf speakers need a long time of break-in before we can emit a solid and meaningful opinion. Yesterday I was listening a second time to the same pair, now with one month of hard use in demos, but using solid state amplifiers. For sure I share the opinions that Steve and Marty told about the treble of this speaker. Next weekend the Aida's will land in my listening room and then I will be able to post my very subjective and very biased opinions to this thread.

BTW, while preparing my system to receive the Aida's I am I am listening to the little sister, the Sonus faber Amati Futura. (yes, Jack I have seen Jeremy Irons in Lolita ) Used in an all Audio Research system, it is good enough to make two of my good friends re-think their convictions about hifi.

ahhhh...i knew it! Thanks for all the insight, as usual! Look forward to reading more after they have arrived at your home!!!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Loyd,

I have listened to the TheSonusfaber several times. They were easily the best speaker I have ever listened to in their capability of recreating a facsimile as close as I have ever seen (heard, sorry) of a symphonic orchestra either or of a small vocal ensemble. However I listened to them with a really good system, including the best ancillaries that could satisfy my preferences (high power tubes) as we like to say in WBF. The placement of the speakers in the room was not optimum - it seemed to me they need a large room, but there was something dangerously tempting in this system. But, in all fairness, I could not separate what was the part due to the source, amplification and speakers.

The first time I listened to the Aida's they were just taken from the box. I have long experience with Sonus faber speakers and it is my non scientific conviction that Sf speakers need a long time of break-in before we can emit a solid and meaningful opinion. Yesterday I was listening a second time to the same pair, now with one month of hard use in demos, but using solid state amplifiers. For sure I share the opinions that Steve and Marty told about the treble of this speaker. Next weekend the Aida's will land in my listening room and then I will be able to post my very subjective and very biased opinions to this thread.

BTW, while preparing my system to receive the Aida's I am I am listening to the little sister, the Sonus faber Amati Futura. (yes, Jack I have seen Jeremy Irons in Lolita ) Used in an all Audio Research system, it is good enough to make two of my good friends re-think their convictions about hifi.

Hopefully, I'll be getting out to gentleman's home in LI who has the big Sonus Fabers driven by the CJ ART/GAT combo.

 

[cjfrbw]

I presume LI is Lon Giland.

 

[mep]

I thought it was Long Island, but anyway, wonder what Harman would say the big SFs would sound like?

 

[microstrip]

I thought it was Long Island, but anyway, wonder what Harman would say the big SFs would sound like?

Mep,
Great if driven by a complete Mark Levinson system. And probably they will sound so with such system!

 

[cjfrbw]

I thought it was Long Island, but anyway, wonder what Harman would say the big SFs would sound like?

Pronounce Lon Giland out loud, and you will get the proper New Yawk emphasis.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

let's try to keep the discussion honest here. I , personally never cared about the Wilson WP lines from the 1 to the 8. I liked the X-2 and Steve could attest to my comment about the highs being better than ANy of the WIlson lineup in term of treble reproduction. The Wp were always bright to my ears .. After the things learned with the original X-2 , the WP-8 came about and th whole Wilson lineup began to change ... The WP8 might have been the shortest lived Wilson I know of. They weren't the greatest speakers intheir price range and frankly their performance was approached by the Sophia II .. Abrupt change , the Sashas, closer to the Maxx-2 in sound and frankly less strident in the treble... Yes the speaker was good but not perfect and surpassed in performance by many in its price range ... To repeat , thus the Sashas... The rise in high Frequency can be heard as well as the drop off as you go down 40 Hz ...
Speaker FR are not a definitive metric. They are a great help in assessing the final sound of a speaker. The way the discussion about Harman findings is going , is as if there is no correlation between the FR of a speaker and subjective impression ... There is and any person who has taken a few minutes to observe a Digital Room Correction system at work would learn a lot about what the FR and how you respond to it .. This would have laid to rest many of the conspiracy theories I see being advanced here..
Oh and by the way I believe the X-2 to be one of the best speakers I have heard , the only Wilson speaker I would care about ... as for the other speakers in the Wilson Line-up, to my ears and measurably the competition is too fierce and often at the much better price ...

 

[LL21]

Hopefully, I'll be getting out to gentleman's home in LI who has the big Sonus Fabers driven by the CJ ART/GAT combo.

very cool! Let us know what you think!

 

[microstrip]

(...) Oh and by the way I believe the X-2 to be one of the best speakers I have heard , the only Wilson speaker I would care about (...) .

Frantz,
You have an excellent taste. Did you ever see any measurements of the X-2?

 

[LL21]

Microstrip - which do you prefer? Sonus Faber or X2 Series 2?

 

[microstrip]

Microstrip - which do you prefer? Sonus Faber or X2 Series 2?

My experience with both is limited - it would be a long homework to establish a valid preference. But facts are facts : I have heard better sound (sound I prefer strongly) from the big TheSonusfaber. But I can not be sure whether this was due to system or speaker.

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz,
You have an excellent taste. Did you ever see any measurements of the X-2?

No .. I can infer from what I have heard that the treble is not rising as was the case with almost every generation of WP I have heard .. AS a matter of fact, the first time I heard it the treble appeared very different from what was the Wilson , then rather hot treble, that to me was un-Wilson-esque..Defintion and extension were there however ... The X-1 first generation started with the treble-tilt down but the ringing was there and to me audible the X-2 cut it down to nothing and the X-2 series 2 doesn't ring... I can also tell the mid range is likely more linear than any Wilson I've ever heard .. I do also believe the 18 Hz at -3dB claim likely to be overstated .. I did no measurements but in Steve's room there is no suck out in the very important 100 to 200 Hz region, the speaker seems to be very forceful in this region as a matter of fact .. I tend to think that measurements would have confirmed what my ears told me .. A neutral speaker ...

And thanks for the compliment

 

[microstrip]

We should remember that Wilson posts room average response, quite different from the anechoic responses being presented. From their site:

Alexandria X2 specifications
Frequency Response: +/-3 dB 19.5 Hz - 22.5 kHz Room Avg. Response

 

[mep]

Got it Carl.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Adding to my last post... I tend to find Sonus Faber extremely seductive but ultimately lacking in neutrality. I haven't heard them for a while.. I liked their small two ways .. I loved the Electa Amator a small, really special speaker that had no problem making its imitation of a much larger acceptable almost believable, while playing small ensemble in a spooky realistic fashion ... Not the Extrema which tended toward a brightness I found fatiguing.. There was Stradivarius I found again beautiful sounding but there was a clear tendency to embellish a lot of things that shouldn't sound so mellow (single violin for example or an in your face horn with the "sourdine/mute" on)
I was told the Aida is different and am looking forward to audition it .. The XLF would not surprise me to be better than the X-2 in term of bass extension .. or treble definition there were room for improvements in both areas... I respect Wilson business acumen but does think that change to the new tweeter should have been made available to all X-2 owners .it can't be that difficult , although the X-2 owners themselves will make Wilson's business case by explaining to me how different the crossover is and the flange and casing and terminals of the new tweeter cannot fit in the "normal" X-2 and then just buying the new, improved and brutally more expensive X-XLF .... Wilson has proven to be very good to sell improvements for quite a lot more and to have it accepted by audiophiles.
AS for the MBL ... I have stated my problem with omni .. I think that it is wise to limit the reflection in a room... The MBL does the exact opposite: it sends everything all around ... I must however say that it fulfill something I do believe to be important in speakers radiating pattern, Constant Directivity .. something people sometimes tend to forget .. This is a CD speaker ..Constant Directvity from 20 to 20 KHz .. ... I think it requires a specially treated room to shine and so far in my auditions i am from convinced ... It does things that are rather unique .. Imaging is good almost everywhere but it does need a lot of watts ..and IME of the SS variety... Does the MBL Extreme work better or as well as a single MBL 101, I don't know, never heard it but let it be said that I am not yet convinced

One must keep an open mind

 

[MylesBAstor]

I presume LI is Lon Giland.

Actually no. Must be two pairs then out on LI

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi

let's try to keep the discussion honest here. I , personally never cared about the Wilson WP lines from the 1 to the 8. I liked the X-2 and Steve could attest to my comment about the highs being better than ANy of the WIlson lineup in term of treble reproduction. The Wp were always bright to my ears .. After the things learned with the original X-2 , the WP-8 came about and th whole Wilson lineup began to change ... The WP8 might have been the shortest lived Wilson I know of. They weren't the greatest speakers intheir price range and frankly their performance was approached by the Sophia II .. Abrupt change , the Sashas, closer to the Maxx-2 in sound and frankly less strident in the treble... Yes the speaker was good but not perfect and surpassed in performance by many in its price range ... To repeat , thus the Sashas... The rise in high Frequency can be heard as well as the drop off as you go down 40 Hz ...
Speaker FR are not a definitive metric. They are a great help in assessing the final sound of a speaker. The way the discussion about Harman findings is going , is as if there is no correlation between the FR of a speaker and subjective impression ... There is and any person who has taken a few minutes to observe a Digital Room Correction system at work would learn a lot about what the FR and how you respond to it .. This would have laid to rest many of the conspiracy theories I see being advanced here..
Oh and by the way I believe the X-2 to be one of the best speakers I have heard , the only Wilson speaker I would care about ... as for the other speakers in the Wilson Line-up, to my ears and measurably the competition is too fierce and often at the much better price ...

As I see it, speakers (and most gear) needs to meet certain criteria to perform properly. After that, it's up to the designer's ears in voicing the speakers. If you want to buy something designed by specs, then buy a mass market product.

 

[FrantzM]

As I see it, speakers (and most gear) needs to meet certain criteria to perform properly. After that, it's up to the designer's ears in voicing the speakers. If you want to buy something designed by specs, then buy a mass market product.

Not surprisingly .. I disagree ... The speaker role is to reproduce. We know this cannot be attained perfectly.. A truism ... The role of the designer is to balance the inevitable and unavoidable compromises... not to create a sound which alter the signature of what needs to be reproduced however "nice' the end result might be.. It is then no surprise that the X-2 is the least colored of al Wilson so far and actually a very neutral speaker in its own right .. You may substitute neutral with "transparent" because it happens to be so in the true sense of the word: You see through and there is less of itself than any Wilson (and many other ) speakers thtat I have heard

 

[MylesBAstor]

Not surprisingly .. I disagree ... The speaker role is to reproduce. We know this cannot be attained perfectly.. A truism ... The role of the designer is to balance the inevitable and unavoidable compromises... not to create a sound which alter the signature of what needs to be reproduced however "nice' the end result might be.. It is then no surprise that the X-2 is the least colored of al Wilson so far and actually a very neutral speaker in its own right .. You may substitute neutral with "transparent" because it happens to be so in the true sense of the word: You see through and there is less of itself than any Wilson (and many other ) speakers thtat I have heard

Do you think Frantz that all the drivers and parts in the xover work exactly as described and there aren't ANY tradeoffs esp. of the mutually exclusive persuasion, in the design of electronics and speakers? C'mon. It's always a balancing act between one area (now not to be exact but an example) eg. say dynamics and another say FR.

You know if it all worked as envisioned, we'd be a lot closer to the sound of live music.

 

[mep]

Do you think Frantz that all the drivers and parts in the xover work exactly as described and there aren't ANY tradeoffs esp. of the mutually exclusive persuasion, in the design of electronics and speakers? C'mon. It's always a balancing act between one area (now not to be exact but an example) eg. say dynamics and another say FR.

You know if it all worked as envisioned, we'd be a lot closer to the sound of live music.

I could start another thread titled "It's All a Compromise."