Sonus Faber Aida vs. Wilson XLF (with the MBL 101 Extreme thrown-in for fun)

[MylesBAstor]

I could start another thread titled "It's All a Compromise."

Didn't know we had a marriage forum

 

[FrantzM]

Do you think Frantz that all the drivers and parts in the xover work exactly as described and there aren't ANY tradeoffs esp. of the mutually exclusive persuasion, in the design of electronics and speakers? C'mon. It's always a balancing act between one area (now not to be exact but an example) eg. say dynamics and another say FR.

You know if it all worked as envisioned, we'd be a lot closer to the sound of live music.

Myles

We're back ! I was losing faith with you and I agreeing on the Basketball thread .. ... You are repeating my points ... That is why I mentioned that we can't attain our goal perfectly .. so in a nutshell the goal is to do the least harm to the signal leave it alone as much as possible ... Seems to work rather well doesn't it?

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles

We're back ! I was losing faith with you and I agreeing on the Basketball thread .. ... You are repeating my points ... That is why I mentioned that we can't attain our goal perfectly .. so in a nutshell the goal is to do the least harm to the signal leave it alone as much as possible ... Seems to work rather well doesn't it?

Well I guess I see it another way Frantz. Each high-end designer puts their mark on their own design by making it sound like they think real music sounds like. That's the difference between high-end and mass market. And they are doing less damage since untouched, it's not going to sound right.

That's why every piece of gear whether it's from Krell, Burmester, VAC, cj, ARC, Rowland all have a "house" sound. No two amplifiers sound the same. No two cartridges sound the same. No two DACs sound the same. And so on and so on. That house sound represents that designers signature. Take DEV's favorite amp, the VAC 450. Kevin voices every amplifier that leaves the factory.

 

[FrantzM]

Well I guess I see it another way Frantz. Each high-end designer puts their mark on their own design by making it sound like they think real music sounds like. That's the difference between high-end and mass market. And they are doing less damage since untouched, it's not going to sound right.

That's why every piece of gear whether it's from Krell, Burmester, VAC, cj, ARC, Rowland all have a "house" sound. No two amplifiers sound the same. No two cartridges sound the same. No two DACs sound the same. And so on and so on. That house sound represents that designers signature. Take DEV's favorite amp, the VAC 450. Kevin voices every amplifier that leaves the factory.

Let's take a non-High End non-Audio project: that of making a family sedan engine. We will take 3 companies.. Toyota, Ford and VW. Each will present a different solution to the problem and make something which will fit the parameters of a family given for a family sedan .. Each of these engines will however be different with some closer to the parameters than others. In fact some people will prefer the deviations better than others but at least we need the thing to fit in a family sedan .. Same with amps or whatever .. They design according to the way they define the problem at hand ..
We in High End Audio prefer the term "voicing" it seems to impart something special to the designer and of course such is encouraged by the Industry to create an aura of specialty", "exclusivity" almost Magic to the design of an audio component ... It requires skill and experience, true and savoir-faire but in the end the darn thing must reproduce music in a way that make instrument a simulacrum of what they sound when we hear them in real life ..It is not magic: both the cars companies and the High End Audio designers must apply Science and Engineering to their endeavors ... That is to me their mark and I am ok with it ... At the High End we get to have the highest level of quality possible or at least we should have .. The Lexus LFA is likely to be tuned to perfection to a higher degree than my fiancee Nissan .. So should the Burmester or the VAC .. If you want to call it "voicing " ...fine

Meanwhhile there were a tale about The Sonus Faber Aida, The Wilson X-2 XLF and the MBL Extreme ...Let's get back to it ...

 

[RBFC]

One of the nagging questions for me is: "How comfortable would I be in buying one of these three loudspeakers ($100K+) when I couldn't compare them in the same room and system on the same day?" The impracticalities of home audition with products of this size and weight are obvious, but it seems to come down to faith and some "intangible" confidence that you receive with one brand. Anyone care to elaborate on this?

Lee

 

[Steve Williams]

One of the nagging questions for me is: "How comfortable would I be in buying one of these three loudspeakers ($100K+) when I couldn't compare them in the same room and system on the same day?" The impracticalities of home audition with products of this size and weight are obvious, but it seems to come down to faith and some "intangible" confidence that you receive with one brand. Anyone care to elaborate on this?

Lee

Lee

it was for that very reason that Marty and I went to Scottsdale as that's the only place in the country to have both on display

 

[jap]

Interesting that so many of the posts in this thread are by people who would never buy either of these speakers and haven't heard them. Many posts are by someone with no listening room or speakers.;-)

It reminds me of an old story where a man is asked why he reads Playboy.

His answer: I read Playboy for the same reason that I read National Geographic,
they both have beautiful color pictures of places I'm never going to get a chance to visit.

 

[JackD201]

Interesting that so many of the posts in this thread are by people who would never buy either of these speakers and haven't heard them. Many posts are by someone with no listening room or speakers.;-)

It reminds me of an old story where a man is asked why he reads Playboy.

His answer: I read Playboy for the same reason that I read National Geographic,
they both have beautiful color pictures of places I'm never going to get a chance to visit.

The man is doing his due diligence for his rebuild. When that task is done. I'm going to enjoy watching somebody eat crow.

 

[FrantzM]

One of the nagging questions for me is: "How comfortable would I be in buying one of these three loudspeakers ($100K+) when I couldn't compare them in the same room and system on the same day?" The impracticalities of home audition with products of this size and weight are obvious, but it seems to come down to faith and some "intangible" confidence that you receive with one brand. Anyone care to elaborate on this?

Lee

Very astute observation Lee

Many of us are attracted to something intangible that a particular brand seems to be good at. I know for a fact that I like Lexus cars better than say. Mercedes .... Wha is it that make me like these ? Same with Steve, very comfortable with Wilson ... Brand Loyalty does change though ...
I will audition very carefully The Aida in May, I will try to have repeat listening there is a dealer in my neck of the wood. There is IMO a change of phiosophy at Sonus Faber .. One toward neutrality without sacrificing what makes the brand as for the XLF maybe one day at a friend's in California ...

 

[Steve Williams]

Very astute observation Lee

Many of us are attracted to something intangible that a particular brand seems to be good at. I know for a fact that I like Lexus cars better than say. Mercedes .... Wha is it that make me like these ? Same with Steve, very comfortable with Wilson ... Brand Loyalty does change though ...
I will audition very carefully The Aida in May, I will try to have repeat listening there is a dealer in my neck of the wood. There is IMO a change of phiosophy at Sonus Faber .. One toward neutrality without sacrificing what makes the brand as for the XLF maybe one day at a friend's in California ...

you must have another friend in California because it won't be me

 

[FrantzM]

you must have another friend in California because it won't be me

Thus the "maybe"

 

[RBFC]

So, when auditioning components in this price range (or any range, for that matter), unless one has a home audition there is no ability to make a complete comparison apples-to-apples. I applaud the effort to travel hundreds of miles to hear these speakers. They were auditioned in different rooms with different gear. I absolutely understand that the senior audiophiles who attended are familiar with qualities of reproduction that comprise state-of-the-art! Yet, it would still truly boil down to some gut feeling that "brand A" is the one you want to buy. My comments were not directed to criticize or diminish the effort expended to see and hear these speakers! I'm more interested in exploring what qualities, real or imagined, contribute to instilling confidence in a purchase of this magnitude.

1. Previous experience with other models from this manufacturer in your own space.

2. Overwhelmingly positive feedback from listeners in many different systems/rooms.

3. Personal interaction with the designer and/or staff of the manufacturer.

I'm sure there are some other factors as well. I hope my intent is clear in asking this.

Lee

 

[thedudeabides]

Here's my 2 cents. First off, an excellent thread articulating the differences and challenges we all face in audio.

Regarding Sonus Faber, I have heard most of the line over the years (not the two flagship models) at shows or in dealer showrooms. They consistently struck me as sounding warm and euphonic. I made this comment on the SF thread on the audioafficiando site. No one seemed to disagree with my generalization. The Aida may be a large step towards a more neutral voicing. I look forward to our site experts comments in this regard.

Another example is Conrad Johnson. Their previous house sound was certainly biased towards a warmer sound. Now they appear to be voiced in a more neutral perspective.

Regarding comments made about the MBL, I have had the 116's for some 15 months (after switching from Martin Logan for some 25 years, last model being the legacy Summit) and can tell you that they are similar to other speakers regarding an appropriate "reflective" balance that works with your room environment. Too much dampening (room treatments absorbing the back wave, etc) and they sound dull. Not enough and they sound bright. One thing I like about the MBL "omni" technology is that the sound radiating pattern is more consistent with what one hears in a live, unamplified musical performance.

GG

PS: And I absolutely love the fact that they sound reasonably good listening off axis. No more dreaded sweet spot.

 

[LL21]

Local dealer (one of the largest) reopens after major renovation next week. Popped in to say hi. They are setting up XLFs. Will post.

 

[trponhunter]

deleted by trponhunter - repsonse was off topic

 

[RBFC]

Just kind of surprised that for this kind of money that more people aren't seriously looking at the Rockport Arrakis - or the Altair for half the money. Both have more sophisticated drivers and cabinets than all of the speakers previously mentioned.

Unless I missed something, this thread described a visit paid by forum members to a store that had the "featured" speakers on display. There haven't really been any "these are the only speakers one should consider" comments. There are several Rockport threads here, all containing very positive comments.

Lee

 

[LL21]

FWIW, I can think of only 2 speakers to which i would upgrde if i could ever find them 2nd hand...X2 (someday) and older Arrakis. I was fortunate to find a 14-yr old pair of X1/Grand Slamms in mint condition...even the plastic had not been peeled off the lacquer and the feet never put on. Just have to be persistent to find that kind of deal again!

 

[trponhunter]

should be plenty of series 2 Wilsons coming on the market - and prices should be dropping as more of them hit the used market. Doubt you'll find very many used Arrakis.

 

[Bruce B]

What I didn't realize is that the Alexandrias and the EA MM3's are exactly the same size. I know I've seen prices for X2's down around $75k

 

[LL21]

should be plenty of series 2 Wilsons coming on the market - and prices should be dropping as more of them hit the used market. Doubt you'll find very many used Arrakis.

Agree...i found one once but it was not the right time for me. will find another one another time.