OK, apologies for the verbal distortions - pun intended. I still don't know what you meant, but it's OK, we can take it at face value, and move on.
You are probably right - the point being the same, though; that IF one is reality, the other one is a distortion.
OK, apologies for the verbal distortions - pun intended. I still don't know what you meant, but it's OK, we can take it at face value, and move on.
The fundamental was clear and defined, followed by its harmonics.
Well, for starters, there is no such thing as harmonics following a fundamental - it's all one complex waveform, with the fundamental and higher harmonics and subharmonics encoded in the same complex waveform; that's basic physics. So your description of the players' sounds is ever more confusing. I think we should really get back on topic.
Ack, do you mean the harmonics of a note occur at the same instant as the fundamental? I realize they are the same complex waveform, but I thought that the two have a temporal relationship. That is, the harmonics can not occur without the fundamental occurring first. A note is struck, or plucked, but one hears a continuous sound originating with the notes fundamental frequency and ending in the harmonics. Am I mistaken? Perhaps a subject for another thread.
We can get back on topic. The topic, I think, has recently become the Rossini Player, which you introduced with your report in this thread about the Spectral SDR-4000SV. I've not heard the new Spectral player yet, but I hope to do so soon. And I look forward to you reporting on what the Spectral sounds like in your system.
Peter,
Acoustic instruments emit a complex spectra, that has a temporal evolution, and can not be described in terms of the simple harmonics. The use of the word harmonics in music is really much broader and less strict than in physics. IMHO no decent CD player can change significantly the harmonic spectra of a sound - however minimal details can change our perception of its temporal evolution, creating the idea you refer. I understood your words in such sense - not in the physical sense, but as description of an effect I have also referred in the past. I remember Harry Pearson wrote essays about similar things, explaining that it was a fundamental aspect for "coherency".
Ack, do you mean the harmonics of a note occur at the same instant as the fundamental? I realize they are the same complex waveform, but I thought that the two have a temporal relationship. That is, the harmonics can not occur without the fundamental occurring first. A note is struck, or plucked, but one hears a continuous sound originating with the notes fundamental frequency and ending in the harmonics. Am I mistaken? Perhaps a subject for another thread.
Refer back to the emails I have sent you over the years, where we have also discussed what truly happens with SRA/VTA et al - not the topic of this thread. If I have not been able to explain the relationships in literally dozens of emails, I won't be able to do it here either. Back on topic - is the lack of presence in the Rossini demo at Goodwin's the only shortcoming of that audition? Were there really no other shortcomings whatsoever?
Peter, the way I see it is that the sound is either 'right', or it's 'wrong' - with the former the sense of what of you're hearing just hangs together, always makes sense at the emotional level, never jars or disturbs; but when it's not working that well then the analytical part of one's brain kicks in, and part of the listening is constantly dissecting what you're hearing, making judgements of whether some aspect is of a good enough standard. Personally , I prefer to always be in the first space - and always work towards getting the system in front of me to that place ...No worries. I don't keep old emails and I'm admittedly too dense to grasp the technical terms of your lessons. I will continue to describe imperfectly what I hear about certain sonic differences and adjustments if they convey meaning to others though are incorrect in an absolute technical sense. Micro explained that well in the post above.he system were posted in that thread when they were fresh in my mind from that remarkable afternoon audition.
Peter, the way I see it is that the sound is either 'right', or it's 'wrong' - with the former the sense of what of you're hearing just hangs together, always makes sense at the emotional level, never jars or disturbs; but when it's not working that well then the analytical part of one's brain kicks in, and part of the listening is constantly dissecting what you're hearing, making judgements of whether some aspect is of a good enough standard. Personally , I prefer to always be in the first space - and always work towards getting the system in front of me to that place ...
Yes, in my experience, this is precisely what happens. It is what I refer to as "natural". You get lost in the music and don't focus on the hifi parts of the sound.
People
The youth with her/his on his cheap earbuds achieve the same, Does it mean the reproduction was "natural"?
I have come to term with the fact that this forum is foremost subjectivist...but people! aren't we losing ourselves here in taking our (fleeting, ever changing, unreliable) state of mind for a reliable, stable metric?
Question was rhetorical. I don't need an answer , just that we ponder a bit and try to make our observations more useful to others.
It is what I refer to as "natural". It is what I refer to as "natural". You get lost in the music and don't focus on the hifi parts of the sound.parts of the sound.
PeterA
No, I do not reject your impressions or anybody's else . I object however to this statement, I am quoting it again
I repeat that this act has noting to do with the "naturalness" of the reproduction, because if it were to happen while listening to a Bose Wave Radio, you wouldn't dare describe the reproduction as "natural". It is a person, you in this case reacting to the music, not the sound. I bet you wouldn't get yourself lost in rap that way however good the system could be ... We need to make this effort IMO. The "lost in the music" thing is a facility we need to avoid. All that IMO, I apologize for being undiplomatic but I needed to get it off my chest...
Yes, in my experience, this is precisely what happens. It is what I refer to as "natural". You get lost in the music and don't focus on the hifi parts of the sound.
People
The youth with her/his on his cheap earbuds achieve the same, Does it mean the reproduction was "natural"?
I have come to term with the fact that this forum is foremost subjectivist...but people! aren't we losing ourselves here in taking our (fleeting, ever changing, unreliable) state of mind for a reliable, stable metric?
Question was rhetorical. I don't need an answer , just that we ponder a bit and try to make our observations more useful to others.
Indeed it is my point ... I'm in this game to enjoy the music, not obsess about the technical performance of the equipment - and one aspect of that is to be able to listen to 'flawed' recordings while extracting the maximum pleasure from the experience. I find the latter especially rewarding, because of the musical values inherent in the performance, or the complexity of the ideas explored in the piece. If the playback equipment gets in the way, because it is emphasising every tiny irregularity, then to me it's worthless ...Making an appointment to audition two expensive DACs with an audio buddy to see if we hear differences and prefer one over the other, that is a different experience. Initially, at least, that is about the sound, not the music. After the initial critical listen, it is pretty easy to hear if it sounds "right" or "wrong". I think this is Frank's point, and I agree with it. If it is "right", then I start to enjoy the music that I have brought in to hear. It is easy to switch over. If it is "wrong", I tend to continue to focus on the artifact or whatever it is that prevents me from enjoying the music.
Since a few weeks I own the SDR 4000SV and I can tell you 'red book cd's won't come better.' Amazing sound for a lot of money. For me the best buy since ages. If you have the money: buy one.
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