State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[PeterA]

I know from three that they were thinking about it afterwards. That doesn't mean that they were enticed to become audiophiles.

Just like I was not enticed after the experiences in Austria of a Porsche GT3 RS and the, for me at least equally impressive, experience of my friend's extremely light-weight Alpine A110 (loved that car on the tight-cornered Austrian mountain roads!!!!!!) to go out and buy a sports car myself. I still love my little 2015 Nissan Versa, which is its own little fun in corners (no, not comparable with the A110).

Alpine A110:

Now you are again talking from your perspective as already being an audiophile, and then ask if my non-audiophile friends were transformed like you were, having already been an audiophile when visiting Utah. I don't quite see the logic here.



Well, you already had a system back then, when you heard the Magicos. So yes, that made you at least a budding audiophile.

You should ask yourself another question: How many of the non-audiophile people who you told me were in love with the sound your horn system have become audiophiles? You know the answer. It makes my point.

Al, you left out the second crucial part of the sentence in my response to Brad. Here it is again in full:

“I agree Brad. Listeners have to leave thinking about that listening experience and sound and wanting to get more of it.”

“Wanting to get more of it“ to me seems independent of whether or not one is an audiophile, budding or otherwise. And that is the key to increasing exposure and growing the hobby, IMO.

Both conditions must be met I think. Lots of people get impressed when hearing good systems, some even think about the experience afterwards, but if they are not interested in recreating some of that for themselves, they’re not going to pursue the hobby.

 

[Lee]

Al, you left out the second crucial part of the sentence in my response to Brad. Here it is again in full:

“I agree Brad. Listeners have to leave thinking about that listening experience and sound and wanting to get more of it.”

“Wanting to get more of it“ to me seems independent of whether or not one is an audiophile, budding or otherwise. And that is the key to increasing exposure and growing the hobby, IMO.

Very well said.

 

[Al M.]

Al, you left out the second crucial part of the sentence in my response to Brad. Here it is again in full:

“I agree Brad. Listeners have to leave thinking about that listening experience and sound and wanting to get more of it.”

“Wanting to get more of it“ to me seems independent of whether or not one is an audiophile, budding or otherwise. And that is the key to increasing exposure and growing the hobby, IMO.

Both conditions must be met I think. Lots of people get impressed when hearing good systems, some even think about the experience afterwards, but if they are not interested in recreating some of that for themselves, they’re not going to pursue the hobby.

No, Peter, it is simply a matter of predisposition and priorities. I loved the experience of those sports cars and still was not enticed to buy one myself. I didn't want to pursue more of the experience on my own.

It is just not a priority of mine.

In the same way my non-audiophile guests loved the experience of my system and still were not enticed to become audiophiles themselves (and neither were your non-audiophile guests when they heard your system).

It is just not a priority of theirs.

 

[microstrip]

If you want people to adopt your hobby then it has to be clear to the music lover, who is not yet into audio, what advantage to listening is being gained.

Surely.

Most systems I have heard don’t give that compelling reason. The sound doesn’t speak for itself.

You are approaching the critical aspect of this hobby - one man's meat is another man's poison. It is not possible to have a system that pleases everyone. Just because a system does not attract our preference does not mean it is a poor sounding system.

IMHO one of the real problems of the high-end is that young people used to listening with headphones are not prepared for the full capabilities of stereo sound reproduction and do not value them. Explaining people how we go from two speakers to a complete soundstage is not easy.

 

[PeterA]

No, Peter, it is simply a matter of predisposition and priorities. I loved the experience of those sports cars and still was not enticed to buy one myself. I didn't want to pursue more of the experience on my own.

It is just not a priority of mine.

In the same way my non-audiophile guests loved the experience of my system and still were not enticed to become audiophiles themselves (and neither were your non-audiophile guests when they heard your system).

It is just not a priority of theirs.

Al, you just made my point.

You enjoyed the experience but were not moved enough to want more of it for yourself. Lee and the rest of the industry want to increase exposure and then convince some to want more of that listening experience and sound for themselves so they then choose to pursue the hobby.

 

[Al M.]

Al, you just made my point.

You enjoyed the experience but were not moved enough to want more of it for yourself. Lee and the rest of the industry want to increase exposure and then convince some to want more of that listening experience and sound for themselves so they then choose to pursue the hobby.

Again, you miss my point about predisposition and priorities, Peter.

There is nothing that can change my predisposition of interest and priorities such that I would pursue sports cars (it could have happened 20 years ago, but now simply not anymore).

Similarly, there is nothing that can change many others' predisposition of interest and priorities such that they would pursue the audiophile hobby.

Some will have a predisposition of interest that will allow within them for a spark to be lit to want to buy a great audio system once they hear one. Both you and I are among these people. But this will be a small percentage of the population, just like a small percentage of the population will ever pursue sports cars or watches -- even if they can afford them, most will not.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

IMHO one of the real problems of the high-end is that young people used to listening with headphones are not prepared for the full capabilities of stereo sound reproduction and do not value them. Explaining people how we go from two speakers to a complete soundstage is not easy.

it's not hard to blow someone's mind if you can play them some music that is familiar and current in their listening. the trick is that they already have an idea how it sounds, so you are doing a magic trick which gets their attention. "how can it be so real without a picture?" "i don't hear any sound coming from the speakers".

when i do get civilians in my room i try hard to find out what they know. if i play what "i" think sounds good, it's not relevant to them catching fire.

they don't care about the why or how, just the 'what it takes' to get more of that stuff.

but they have to have some passion for the music, or have another leg up already about tech or gear. maybe looking for a hobby or thing to enjoy for themselves. something to build on. a hunger to take the next step. you can't force it. some get it and some don't.

 

[Al M.]

You are approaching the critical aspect of this hobby - one man's meat is another man's poison. It is not possible to have a system that pleases everyone. Just because a system does not attract our preference does not mean it is a poor sounding system.

Well said.

People simply have different tastes and perceptions.

 

[microstrip]

it's not hard to blow someone's mind if you can play them some music that is familiar and current in their listening. the trick is that they already have an idea how it sounds, so you are doing a magic trick which gets their attention. when i do get civilians in my room i try hard to find out what they know. if i play what "i" think sounds good, it's not relevant to them catching fire.

they don't care about the why or how, just the 'what it takes' to get more of that stuff.

but they have to have some passion for the music, or have another leg up already about tech or gear. maybe looking for a hobby or thing to enjoy for themselves. something to build on. a hunger to take the next step.

IMHO blowing someone mind with tricks will result soon or later in disappointment. I believe in enlightened consumers. In fact , one terror of dealers is the fact that consumers sometimes buy what sounded great in the shop and feel disappointed with the sound they get at home.

The high-end needs a special motivation - not just music love.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

IMHO blowing someone mind with tricks will result soon or later in disappointment. I believe in enlightened consumers. In fact , one terror of dealers is the fact that consumers sometimes buy what sounded great in the shop and feel disappointed with the sound they get at home.

The high-end needs a special motivation - not just music love.

disagree. it's not that complicated or daunting.

certainly not all rooms and systems will do all music equal justice. but finding magic at modest levels is doable if you know where you are trying to get....have a reference. having a feel for the basics, or trust in someone who does, can give you a taste to dip your toe and hold your interest. where and how far you take it is a different thing. how one's life compliments the direction, or not, is paramount.

 

[gleeds]

You are describing my WOW moment with Mike Kay at Lyric. Fortunately there are many ways to experience a WOW moment…trade shows, dealers, and perhaps best of all a listen at a friend’s place. Our local vinyl store had two employees really interested in jazz. We started to get together and have listens on my system. We worked together to improve their systems with recommendations and then them having a listen at dealers and friends. One wound up with ELAC speakers and Prima Luna gear.

Lee, I love that you are so open to receiving feedback and learning how best to serve your readers.

Have you seen this photo circa 1975? My WOW moment at 16 with my mentor Sir Mike Kay!!! ML HQD system in the background. If Mike thought you genuinely loved music and reproducing it and were not wasting is time there was no better friend or teacher

 

[howiebrou]

I believe Brad is the man we need. The man to save the industry.
He shows his system to ten guys, and they're inspired to buy into the high end.
These guys then show their systems to ten other guys each. And you know, they buy in.
And on and on.
And before you know it, the whole world has jacked in its collective IPod, and listening on the go, and music in the background...and we're all sitting down to reverentially listen to music w no distractions.
And Twitter will jack in the culture war and take to brutal discussions on cables and fuses and switches and VTA.
It's a brave new world, alright.

That's a very high R number. Omnicron would be impressed.

 

[Lee]

Lee, I love that you are so open to receiving feedback and learning how best to serve your readers.

Have you seen this photo circa 1975? My WOW moment at 16 with my mentor Sir Mike Kay!!! ML HQD system in the background. If Mike thought you genuinely loved music and reproducing it and were not wasting is time there was no better friend or teacher

That is so awesome. I miss that guy a lot.

 

[tima]

The high-end needs a special motivation - not just music love.

But music love is a necessary condition.

 

[tima]

If the hobby is dead, why are vinyl record sales exploding?

Indeed they are. This is RIAA 2020-2021 Volume and Sales for physical media:



2021 vinyl units shipped increased by ~67% over 2020.

Edit: reasonable to assume government lockdowns were a factor as more people were at home. It will be interesting to see if growth rate can be sustained over the next few years.

 

[metaphacts]

Lee, I love that you are so open to receiving feedback and learning how best to serve your readers.

Have you seen this photo circa 1975? My WOW moment at 16 with my mentor Sir Mike Kay!!! ML HQD system in the background. If Mike thought you genuinely loved music and reproducing it and were not wasting is time there was no better friend or teacher

Looks like a pair of ML-6 and a Cotter Base in the system. That would be a bit later than 1975

 

[Jep]

Which Munich session are you addressing?

The Living Voice speaker system with Kondo electronics all the way, they have this system every year. The best listening experience I have had was in his room at the Munich show. Easily beats (IMO) big Gryphons, Tidal, Wilson and Magico systems on display there. I have never heard a piano sound more real than on this system.

As for friends listening to my system (used to cost about USD 200.000,-): I let them listen to a couple of their favorite tracks when they were over for dinner; Yes of course they liked what they heard, but after a couple of tracks all was forgotten and they were back drinking more red wine and talking about other topics than music and sound. None of them as bought a hifi system and they are listening to music through their airpods.

 

[morricab]

You're sounding like the guy who tries to convince his friends that driving needs to involve a Ferrari etc.
I can tell you right now, the family, friends and patients that I know who have a love for music, precisely zero of them have the inclination to go into our hobby in any meaningful way.
So yes, it's great you have friends who've taken the plunge, big and small, that's not my experience in the least.
A good take is a waiter at our local Indian restaurant. He has spent good money on his car, watch and clothes. He has zero interest in an audio system at home beyond ITunes and Soundbar, IPod etc.
You put him in front of the Living Voice, he'll love what he hears, but once out of the room he'll only want to talk about the Porsche Boxster he's determined to buy.

No , I am like the guy who gives them the keys to my Ferrari and lets them go off for a drive in it. They come back amazed (or not) and thinking about their experience.

I stopped thinking about owning a Ferrari, btw., when I got to drive a friends on a driving trip through the Black Forest. I was driving my Lotus and we decided to swap for a while cars. After 30 minutes I was happy to go back to driving my Lotus...it was the much better driving experience! If your “Ferrari” audio system fails to convince them people will stick to what they have.

Put him in front of Living Voice and you may be surprised...

 

[morricab]

Which Munich session are you addressing?

They are a bit of a blur now but I think around 2014 was the best one...

 

[morricab]

No, Peter, it is simply a matter of predisposition and priorities. I loved the experience of those sports cars and still was not enticed to buy one myself. I didn't want to pursue more of the experience on my own.

It is just not a priority of mine.

In the same way my non-audiophile guests loved the experience of my system and still were not enticed to become audiophiles themselves (and neither were your non-audiophile guests when they heard your system).

It is just not a priority of theirs.

Predisposition, yes...the person has to care greatly about music. If they don’t then what they heard will be a curiosity...nothing more.

Priorities can be changed. I once got asked by a female friend of mine to help her build a home theater systems. Her boyfriend played on a band but they didn’t have any Hifi system other than some old junk left over from University days. I told her we can start with speakers and after a day picking those (nice pair of Audioplan Kontrast IIIs) she and her boyfriend decided they wanted a great Hifi rig rather than a home theater. In the end they had a tube preamp and 20 watt SET monos and just like that a true high end system in one go because they reprioritized.