State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[Elliot G.]

Now imagine he did that with a high end system.

that's the point of the whole exercise. For those who are not in the business and are hobbyist this means very little and I get it that they don't care but for those of us who have grown up in this business the major issue has always been exposure. Its not a new problem its the same old problem from the 60's.
We all get exposed to new things and that exposure no matter how it comes turns on the light for some to explore more. As I said reviews serve their purpose as do magazines etc. but they do not expand the base like something like this has the possibilities to do. Will it work? who's the right person? How does it happen? What does it cost? these are questions that are hard to answer.
Music is important and the reason things like Classical, jazz and other forms of music are having financial problems is it takes more than giving a few tickets out. The ability to listen in your home to quality sound should make people want to listen more, to explore more, to enjoy more. The "itis" has nothing to do with this. To many audiophiles think that they are the only ones that buy stuff. That is the farthest thing from the truth. Our business for over 20 years would have never survived on audiophiles.
All kinds of people enjoy music of all genres. They come to it by all different ways. Many want to enjoy it at home and over the last two years even more have found that listening at home was the singular option. Let us hope that it has turned more people onto great music and better sound.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Does anyone in this hobby know anyone really interested in the hobby, even those with a true love for music? I don't, no audiophile I know does either.
All we have are long suffering partners, friends who look at us as if we need our lithium or tramadol and quick.
And those who you'd think would be into the hobby are resolutely immune to its charms.
My GF's brother has a couple of thousand CDs and goes to live classical multiple times a week, he runs a very modest lo fi system.
I have three professional classical musicians and a club DJ as patients, they just dismiss the idea of a specialist system at home.
And woe betide you mention the hobby to any music lover under 25, if looks of incredulity and pity could kill, I'd be dead many times over.
Of course, play some music to these listeners on my rig, and they're in the moment in a way no IPod could manage, but the moment they're out of the room, the spell is broken and they're back onto ITunes.
The hobby is dead to anyone under 35 as far as I can see.

 

[rbbert]

...Maybe the way forward for the industry is somehow to make music lovers take the first step to improve sound quality by improving the sound quality of the listening experience on their laptops? But then how do we encourage laptop music lovers to make the leap to a system which takes up space in a room and costs a few thousand dollars?

Start by showing that a laptop may be a reasonable source, and by adding a good DAC, amp and speakers in a well setup room one can have a much more enjoyable listening experience? Or maybe not...

 

[Bobvin]

The only way I try to influence anyone these days is about finding passion in their lives. I don’t want to convert anyone to anything. Let them enjoy the discovery of whatever moves them and brings them joy. As a passionate audiophile I like to share great sound with folks who care to listen. Beyond that, maybe share great wine with wine lovers.

This hobby will live on or it won’t. There are people passionate about creating great audio products so for them I hope there will be people passionate about finding/buying/enjoying the fruits of their efforts. The challenge for manufacturers of any product is letting the world know about what they make — same as it ever was. (Is why “marketing” exists.)

As a “remote listening room” I offer a chance for audiophiles to hear new gear from passionate manufacturers. The only downside of embarking on this journey has been how in the eyes of some I am perceived as somehow less passionate and more profit driven. I’m the same guy as always, love to share music, now with better gear than I had before. As an example, last night some Portland Audio Club folks came by. They are not in market for kit at these prices, but for the DIY crew they at least have an idea of what the target looks like. Others just come to share the passion and have fun. I like that.

 

[Lee]

Speaking as a relative newcomer compared to many here, I would bring up a potentially controversial issue in the mainstream audio in magazines, forums and online reviews, which is that most of the reviewers are elderly and so all and everything revolves around the standard of “analogue” and the “old days” of vinyl. I know analogue has its charm and I believe it can sound great. I have heard analogue set ups that sound way better than digital and also digital that are better than analogue. I am also open to the possibility that all things equal at the very top of performance analogue still edges digital out. But I do NOT want to collect things, especially as records get more and more expensive. I am not interested in a house full of records and all that comes with that. Of course, I am not asking that anyone share in that sentiment. It’s just me. I listen to a lot of music, and so would need a huge collection. And I dont have any nostalgia surrounding records. My rig has always been digital. Sure, I havent been into this for 40 yrs, only 10-15. I just have different priorities.

If one spent decades perfecting a vinyl rig, and you have lots of time and joy therein, then of course all digital will be relative to that. My point is that the references to ”analogue sound,” by which I mean vinyl not analogue vs digital, is lost on many newcomers who don‘t have that experience. I dont know what to make of an ad that says something like “digital so good it is like analogue” or other such references. I suspect other relative newcomers may feel the same.

I must respectfully take issue with the idea that most reviewers are "elderly" and that we only focus on analog. Our writing staff is very diverse from an age standpoint and we devote a ton of content to digital.

 

[Lee]

The reason this hobby cannot grow is whoever on this forum is actively seeking to expand it, is rational only if he is profiting from the expansion. The other audiophiles are simply looking to rationalize their own senseless behavior. This hobby is about upgraditis and curiositis - the only reason we are all here is that when we started, we wondered what would happen with an alternate piece of gear/approach. And that "itis", or itch grew and kept us here long term. We formed audiophile associations, and friendships, ego, emotional ups and downs, became associated with this small group.

We should encourage the young only to get into good things. I try to get them into some fitness regimen, or buy my non-audiophile friends tickets to classical concerts when they are in London, so that they get into music. I am a converter by nature. I always try to get my veggie friends to eat fish and meat - I succeeded with my childhood friend after he turned 40. Heck, when we first moved from India to London, a friend of mine picked up a curry with me, thought it was vegetarian, and loved it. After he finished I told him with a cheeky smile that it was beef. He was religious and did not speak to me for a week.

But even a serial converter like me who tries to get Wilson Magico owners to move to better speakers, asks my non-audiophile friends to stay away from audiophilia. Would you encourage them to do drugs or be an alcoholic (different from buying your young 'un one glass of wine when they are 18). You want to do something good for music stop pretending that's what you are here for and buy them tickets to concerts or to music classes. It is good that some of them can afford headphones or small systems. That is not the hobby, unless they develop the itch.

Let this hobby die peacefully. Enjoy your addiction while it lasts. It is great that all owners of a gear approach try to defend their choice here to stroke their own ego, but investigate what you don't know. If you haven't heard Western electrics, it is new for you, does not matter if it was made over a 100 years ago.

Bonzo,

The high end's enjoyment of music is a healthy thing for people of all ages and budgets. To not find merit in extending that enjoyment to more people, then my only conclusion is that you have the darkest of souls.

 

[bonzo75]

Bonzo,

This may be the most negative thing I have read on the web. If you really believe this, then I seriously question whether you should be allowed on the forum.

The high end's enjoyment of music is a healthy thing for people of all ages and budgets. To not find merit in extending that enjoyment to more people, then my only conclusion is that you have the darkest of souls.

Sorry, I would rather they spend on music than gear. I get that encouraging the young funds your business. Guess which is more dark?

As for being allowed on the forum, this is for the converted, not to convert. I have no intentions of going to the to convert forum. You will do well there. You know as much as them about gear and music, and you have motive to convert them

Meanwhile, please tell us which performances of Beethoven's violin concerto you like?

 

[Al M.]

There is some of that - you do see it in other audio forums too. What we don't hear from as much is those who have a system but have stopped upgrading - omg people who are content.

That would be me, for example. I am more than content. I have done my last major component upgrade 3 years ago, with an Octave HP 700 preamp, and a major upgrade of power amp, speakers and subwoofers 4 years ago. I haven't changed analog signal cables in 4 or 5 years. My system is settling; I do not plan to upgrade my main components anymore.

I cannot believe how much the sound improved from 3 or 4 years ago with the very same components in the system by upgrades in acoustics, changes in set-up and power delivery. With all those changes in the "periphery" around the system, the components that I bought have vastly exceeded my expectations of what they would be capable of, based on what I heard at home from them when I first got them. I am very happy with the result.

For sure, the system has some shortcomings left, but these do not really bother me and could only be addressed with a boatload of money spent on a whole different system approach, with money that I do not have and in a larger room that I do not have. Yet the system also has some unique strengths, or a combination of strengths, that are hard to come by with other system approaches, and certainly hard to come by without losing or diminishing some winning attributes in the process. So I don't see myself moving on from here.

Tackling power delivery (10 AWG shielded in-wall wiring, ZenWave power cables, Furutech 6-way power distributor, Furutech outlet) has been my second to last major adventure, and has now come to a close as well. The last adventure, sometime in the future, will also be in the "periphery", with platforms and system rack (vibration control), probably from HRS.

But I am in no rush to tackle this last issue, also because I want to spend money on other things.

 

[Bobvin]

Audiophilia will survive. Hell, classical music survives — which performance of Beethovens’ violin concerto? Pease don’t make me listen again. I can tell you j.j.cales performance of ”Magnolia” is intimate and touching, but Eric Clapton / John Mayer‘s rendition is also sublime.

I seriously hope newcomers to the hobby are not convinced it can only be appreciated by lovers of classical music.

 

[thedudeabides]

Any realist knows the hobby, as we know it, is dead or at least on life support. I see nothing that is going to change this given current demographics and ease of access to music.

People who post here are such a infintesmally small percentage of people who listen to music. Fast forward twenty years.

Alexa, what is serious two channel audio?

No response except I do not understand your question.

 

[bonzo75]

Audiophilia will survive. Hell, classical music survives — which performance of Beethovens’ violin concerto? Pease don’t make me listen again. I can tell you j.j.cales performance of ”Magnolia” is intimate and touching, but Eric Clapton / John Mayer‘s rendition is also sublime.

I seriously hope newcomers to the hobby are not convinced it can only be appreciated by lovers of classical music.

Music, classical or rock survives for a different reason. And yes, there too, vintage is not outdated, the music that has survived still reigns supreme.

 

[Lee]

Any realist knows the hobby, as we know it, is dead or at least on life support. I see nothing that is going to change this given current demographics and ease of access to music.

People who post here are such a infintesmally small percentage of people who listen to music. Fast forward twenty years.

Alexa, what is serious two channel audio?

No response except I do not understand your question.

If the hobby is dead, how can TAS be doubling the number of subscribers in one year?

If the hobby is dead, how can our Sonus Faber Omnia sweepstakes get 5,000 participants in under two weeks?

If the hobby is dead, how can TAS and hi-fi+ reach 1.4 million audiophiles every single month?

If the hobby is dead, why are vinyl record sales exploding?

If the hobby is dead, why are almost all the high end manufacturers who advertise in TAS tell us they had a record year in 2020 and 2021?

If the hobby is dead, why did Qobuz, Tidal, and Amazon add better quality files?

 

[andromedaaudio]

 

[PeterA]

I can count on my hand the number of people who write hand written letters to friends to communicate. Things change. Now we text and it’s quicker easier and perhaps more prolific. The experience is different and the result is different. It’s not clear to me that they even teach handwriting in grade school anymore. Not worth making a judgment about this, simply sharing an observation.

 

[andromedaaudio]

If the hobby is dead, how can TAS be doubling the number of subscribers in one year?

If the hobby is dead, how can our Sonus Faber Omnia sweepstakes get 5,000 participants in under two weeks?

If the hobby is dead, how can TAS and hi-fi+ reach 1.4 million audiophiles every single month?

If the hobby is dead, why are vinyl record sales exploding?

If the hobby is dead, why are almost all the high end manufacturers who advertise in TAS tell us they had a record year in 2020 and 2021?

If the hobby is dead, why did Qobuz, Tidal, and Amazon add better quality files?

In brussels where i live now you have 4 high end shops full of gear .
Indeed Lots of new companies/ models emerge , high end isn t dead.

 

[rbbert]

...Let this hobby die peacefully...

Perhaps if more music lovers/listeners cared more about sound quality we would not have so many abysmal sounding new and/or old remastered recordings foisted upon us?

 

[Lee]

I can count on my hand the number of people who write hand written letters to friends to communicate. Things change. Now we text and it’s quicker easier and perhaps more prolific. The experience is different and the result is different. It’s not clear to me that they even teach handwriting in grade school anymore. Not worth making a judgment about this, simply sharing an observation.

If texting means that people now are using more modern ways to communicate then yes we have a useful analogy. People are consuming music in new ways. In the past (and present) we had records and radio. Now we have streaming and hires files and XM. People are arguably better equipped with streaming services and apps like Roon to explore more music more easily.

High end audio isn't dead. It's just adapting to new channels and methods.

 

[Elliot G.]

If texting means that people now are using more modern ways to communicate then yes we have a useful analogy. People are consuming music in new ways. In the past (and present) we had records and radio. Now we have streaming and hires files and XM. People are arguably better equipped with streaming services and apps like Roon to explore more music more easily.

High end audio isn't dead. It's just adapting to new channels and methods.

IMO Qobuz is one of the most incredible items that I have ever experienced for the love of music. I can find and or exposed to everything at my finger tips. I don't have to suffer with purchasing gobs of bad recordings and wasting incredible amounts of time and dollars.
Music is alive and music is more important than any of these arguments. The ability to listen and for many of us and millions more to bring the sound of concerts and artists home is a joy and a pleasure. I feel it will and must survive and those who selfishly want to protect their small world and small opinion that's their choice. Roy pointed out some issues, others have proposed solutions maybe some good some not so good but I feel an obligation to try to pay forward what was shown to me, taught me and made me happy. People can hear but they need to learn to listen. Its like many other skills. The expansion of visibility of music and how its enjoyed may and can change the world. It may not be significant to some but it is too me, my family, my friends, and the audio community.

 

[Al M.]

Perhaps if more music lovers/listeners cared more about sound quality we would not have so many abysmal sounding new and/or old remastered recordings foisted upon us?

I'll grant you that pop/rock frequently is a problem. But let's face it, many old pop/rock recordings aren't that great either. Also not on vinyl in their masterings at the time (and in fact, some of the pressings are rather abysmal).

In classical music, and classical contemporary avantgarde, as well as jazz, there are many great modern recordings.

Also, the idea that there are no great modern, individual sounding interpretations in classical music is a myth. Recorded performances by young Italian pianist Beatrice Rana or young violinist Vilde Frang are phenomenal, as is the recently released Beethoven quartet cycle with Quatuor Ebene. Just to name a few examples. There is so much incredible young talent out there. I've also heard it live at the New England Conservatory in Boston, for example.

The idea of a "golden age" in interpretation and recording is for the diehard vinyl-only fans. Nothing against vinyl, it can be absolutely phenomenal, but it just isn't everything.

 

[howiebrou]

Right now, how would this hobby change in perception if any number of Kanye West, Harry Styles, David Grohl, Daniel Craig, Emma Watson, Adele, Tom Hardy, etc, spent the majority of their lifestyle interviews and fluff video blogs fully enthusing about their life changing hobbies of audiophilia, and why they'd beseech their young fans to get into serious listening at home as a dedicated hobby?

Marc your list is a boomer list. No way my kids would consider them as influencers.