State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial
- Thread starter Elliot G.
- Start date
I agree 100%. Relying solely on a positive online review is like making an investment based upon an analyst's recommendation or something Jim Cramer said on TV. All that stuff has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's why when I'm in the market for a new component I go to sites like WBF (although none of the others are as good) to get advice on what I should buy. I purchased a $10K LDMS server based upon positive feedback from people like Golum and Christoph and knowing that Al had one. If it was good enough for their ears, it was good enough for me. I am thrilled with that purchase and will likely be upgrading to another of Lucas' servers in the near future.
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Real world example today...
I'm looking for a preamp, preferably a DHT or non-12AX7, 6922, etc. for a 2nd system. I have one now but it's gain is too low to work well with my new Border Patrol amp. In any event I find one today I like. It's sold through NA distributor only. I check out their website and see it listed, so I enquire. Do you have one, if not how long to get one. I'm told we don't stock but we can order one from the manufacturer. It will take 9-12 weeks.
My background is in finance. I get a business has a right to earn a fair return on capital invested. God bless capitalism. But what about if you stock nothing, throw up a web page and hawk your wares. What's a reasonable return when you've got virtually nothing invested in goods? The distributor is very far away and as we're talking a preamp as opposed to speakers they can't help with setup. Even if I were close by they have no showroom to demonstrate it. So again, what do they add other than they have the relationship with the manufacturer and can order from them and I can't? IMHO, that model is totally f**ked up today. All it does is jack up prices to the consumer.
I grew up in NY and have had Sound By Singer and Lyric offer me 5% off of a $50,000 purchase (and that was 25 years ago when that was a lot of money). I wasn't happy but I get it. Andy Singer and Mike Kay had millions of dollars invested in inventory and were paying NYC rents. But online only and we don't even stock merchandise? That's not a model I can support. But like I said, that's just my opinion. Yours might be completely different.
Ian
p.s. if anyone has a reasonably priced DHT preamp, even DIY, that they want to sell please DM me.
I'm looking for a preamp, preferably a DHT or non-12AX7, 6922, etc. for a 2nd system. I have one now but it's gain is too low to work well with my new Border Patrol amp. In any event I find one today I like. It's sold through NA distributor only. I check out their website and see it listed, so I enquire. Do you have one, if not how long to get one. I'm told we don't stock but we can order one from the manufacturer. It will take 9-12 weeks.
My background is in finance. I get a business has a right to earn a fair return on capital invested. God bless capitalism. But what about if you stock nothing, throw up a web page and hawk your wares. What's a reasonable return when you've got virtually nothing invested in goods? The distributor is very far away and as we're talking a preamp as opposed to speakers they can't help with setup. Even if I were close by they have no showroom to demonstrate it. So again, what do they add other than they have the relationship with the manufacturer and can order from them and I can't? IMHO, that model is totally f**ked up today. All it does is jack up prices to the consumer.
I grew up in NY and have had Sound By Singer and Lyric offer me 5% off of a $50,000 purchase (and that was 25 years ago when that was a lot of money). I wasn't happy but I get it. Andy Singer and Mike Kay had millions of dollars invested in inventory and were paying NYC rents. But online only and we don't even stock merchandise? That's not a model I can support. But like I said, that's just my opinion. Yours might be completely different.
Ian
p.s. if anyone has a reasonably priced DHT preamp, even DIY, that they want to sell please DM me.
Real world example today...
I'm looking for a preamp, preferably a DHT or non-12AX7, 6922, etc. for a 2nd system. I have one now but it's gain is too low to work well with my new Border Patrol amp. In any event I find one today I like. It's sold through NA distributor only. I check out their website and see it listed, so I enquire. Do you have one, if not how long to get one. I'm told we don't stock but we can order one from the manufacturer. It will take 9-12 weeks.
My background is in finance. I get a business has a right to earn a fair return on capital invested. God bless capitalism. But what about if you stock nothing, throw up a web page and hawk your wares. What's a reasonable return when you've got virtually nothing invested in goods? The distributor is very far away and as we're talking a preamp as opposed to speakers they can't help with setup. Even if I were close by they have no showroom to demonstrate it. So again, what do they add other than they have the relationship with the manufacturer and can order from them and I can't? IMHO, that model is totally f**ked up today. All it does is jack up prices to the consumer.
I grew up in NY and have had Sound By Singer and Lyric offer me 5% off of a $50,000 purchase (and that was 25 years ago when that was a lot of money). I wasn't happy but I get it. Andy Singer and Mike Kay had millions of dollars invested in inventory and were paying NYC rents. But online only and we don't even stock merchandise? That's not a model I can support. But like I said, that's just my opinion. Yours might be completely different.
Ian
p.s. if anyone has a reasonably priced DHT preamp, even DIY, that they want to sell please DM me.
Try to find a Thomas Mayer 10y. Also someone I know in the UK makes an excellent 101d preamp but the brand is lesser known. I am not sure of the exact price but I assume it is below 10k gbp.
Thank you. I see a 10Y out there, actually two of them one silver. one copper but I believe they are pretty low gain as well. I will check to make sure. I have a 101d preamp now in my 2nd system. It's fantastic but with only 5db gain it can't drive the Border Patrol amp I just bought. I'd like another DHT with more gain.
KR Audio P135…darn good for the money. Uses 45 output tubes.Real world example today...
I'm looking for a preamp, preferably a DHT or non-12AX7, 6922, etc. for a 2nd system. I have one now but it's gain is too low to work well with my new Border Patrol amp. In any event I find one today I like. It's sold through NA distributor only. I check out their website and see it listed, so I enquire. Do you have one, if not how long to get one. I'm told we don't stock but we can order one from the manufacturer. It will take 9-12 weeks.
My background is in finance. I get a business has a right to earn a fair return on capital invested. God bless capitalism. But what about if you stock nothing, throw up a web page and hawk your wares. What's a reasonable return when you've got virtually nothing invested in goods? The distributor is very far away and as we're talking a preamp as opposed to speakers they can't help with setup. Even if I were close by they have no showroom to demonstrate it. So again, what do they add other than they have the relationship with the manufacturer and can order from them and I can't? IMHO, that model is totally f**ked up today. All it does is jack up prices to the consumer.
I grew up in NY and have had Sound By Singer and Lyric offer me 5% off of a $50,000 purchase (and that was 25 years ago when that was a lot of money). I wasn't happy but I get it. Andy Singer and Mike Kay had millions of dollars invested in inventory and were paying NYC rents. But online only and we don't even stock merchandise? That's not a model I can support. But like I said, that's just my opinion. Yours might be completely different.
Ian
p.s. if anyone has a reasonably priced DHT preamp, even DIY, that they want to sell please DM me.
I wouldn't take the KR preamp. I like the KR power amps but the preamp is not in the same league. Even the 1800 gbp used yamamoto was quite better, and we tried different valves on the KR preamp including KR and the EML globe anniversary mesh and solid plate (it is best suited to its own KR valves, but just not good enough)
Yes, in a nutshell.
The younger music lovers are/were raised on digital, often through ear buds. A good streamer and some decent bookshelf speakers would be all the "high end" they need. The pure analogue records us old folks cherish, are of groups/music that the younger music lovers have no experience with (except as background Muzak in the elevator or grocery store).
I have had my nephew around listening to my system, to show him what I was into and to consider if I should leave it all to him when I pass. At first I showed him how digital to vinyl sounds much worse (on my playback system) than pure analogue to vinyl by playing one copy in one then another in the other (he could easily discern which was which on my system), however when I subsequently played music from my most prized LP's he didn't know the music or the musicians. What do I do? This isn't music from his era and, although he apparently enjoyed listening with me that day I doubt that he would get enough out of it to use up precious real estate in his home for an occasional listen or demonstration to friends.
My 24 year old son is similar. The only interaction he's got with my systems is when he helps me set things up. I have equipment to give him but he has zero interest. When he wants to unwind he sits in front of his PC and games while listening to music through ear buds on his iphone. I don't really get it, but all his friends are the same way.
Imagine the opportunities the few younger enthusiasts will have when we older folks die off and our families end up giving away or selling for pennies former state of the art gear and nice record collections. The best of the best will still be coveted and the few remaining lunatics will have a lot of fun.
Hopefully the local wine merchant will buy my stuff and open a "listening bar".
I haven't compared the KR P135 to a Yamamoto (never heard one myself) but to a mid-level Ayon Preamp (Brad would know the exact model) and to the Einstein Preamp and the KR P135 was (almost?) as good as the others.
From time to time there are second hand KR P135 that can be fetched for as low as 2 to 2.5k Euro.
The Berning preamp was much better than the top Einstein preamp model both with the Berning and the Einstein amp
do you all think the issue with 'the youth of today' is new?
My best mate's son is listening to quite a system and he is 26 or so, he has good ears and knows what's right and what not and he digs much of the music we typically listen to, there is hope...'l Histoire se le repete.
It helps when you educate your kids, or rather show them the way...my 6 year old listens to plenty of music that is not typical for his age, he likes Mahler, Bookashade, Johnny Cash, Kollektiv Turmstrasse, Schubert Lieder... the funny part is that he has developed a knack for calling out the mood a song has/invokes, and he is spot on!
My best mate's son is listening to quite a system and he is 26 or so, he has good ears and knows what's right and what not and he digs much of the music we typically listen to, there is hope...'l Histoire se le repete.
It helps when you educate your kids, or rather show them the way...my 6 year old listens to plenty of music that is not typical for his age, he likes Mahler, Bookashade, Johnny Cash, Kollektiv Turmstrasse, Schubert Lieder... the funny part is that he has developed a knack for calling out the mood a song has/invokes, and he is spot on!
State of the industry?
Munich High End show had only 20,000 attendees this year - according to their website. And many of these folks were industry people, not fans.
In contrast, I am going to some Dead and Company shows this summer. Some of these concerts are in large stadiums, with 50K, 60K+ fans. Many tickets cost over $500, with a good number over $1,000, and some even around $2K. Night after night, after night.
Many of those guys LOVE music, and listen to tapes of these shows as well as older Grateful Dead shows. (Many of the older taped Dead shows have since been released as digital downloads and CDs. And dead and company sells many of the digital concert recordings online.)
Now if the industry even tried to cater to these music lovers - who obviously have money, instead of the old mother fuyers, who havent' left their basement since the 1970s and have an analytical detail fetish on their wilsons and other sterile box speakers, but instead focused on gear that sounds like music, maybe, just maybe, this industry would have a future
Munich High End show had only 20,000 attendees this year - according to their website. And many of these folks were industry people, not fans.
In contrast, I am going to some Dead and Company shows this summer. Some of these concerts are in large stadiums, with 50K, 60K+ fans. Many tickets cost over $500, with a good number over $1,000, and some even around $2K. Night after night, after night.
Many of those guys LOVE music, and listen to tapes of these shows as well as older Grateful Dead shows. (Many of the older taped Dead shows have since been released as digital downloads and CDs. And dead and company sells many of the digital concert recordings online.)
Now if the industry even tried to cater to these music lovers - who obviously have money, instead of the old mother fuyers, who havent' left their basement since the 1970s and have an analytical detail fetish on their wilsons and other sterile box speakers, but instead focused on gear that sounds like music, maybe, just maybe, this industry would have a future
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